Electric Bass Bow Tools

[FatBassTone]

Hi all,

I’ve recently been enlisted to play a musical, and I very much do not play double bass however there are parts of the musical that are bowed double bass. For the overall sound I’ll be using my Ibanez SRF705 with the piezo, as the parts also require 5 strings and I’ll already be using the magnetic pickups for the fretless parts. My question is, how does one emulate the bow, more specifically the length of the notes. I’ve looked into Ebows, Aeons, Joyos and sustainer pedals, but I’m wondering if any of you have any experience with this field, and what you would recommend

 

[gtirard]

Hi all,

I’ve recently been enlisted to play a musical, and I very much do not play double bass however there are parts of the musical that are bowed double bass. For the overall sound I’ll be using my Ibanez SRF705 with the piezo, as the parts also require 5 strings and I’ll already be using the magnetic pickups for the fretless parts. My question is, how does one emulate the bow, more specifically the length of the notes. I’ve looked into Ebows, Aeons, Joyos and sustainer pedals, but I’m wondering if any of you have any experience with this field, and what you would recommend

Too bad you don't have a ABG, you could try a guitar bow
Thomann has a cheap one

 

[FatBassTone]

Too bad you don't have a ABG, you could try a guitar bow
Thomann has a cheap one

I do actually have an acoustic, just not a fretless one. This could be a potential option, don’t think much of that fretless ‘mwah’ will be coming through when bowed anyways

 

[gtirard]

I do actually have an acoustic, just not a fretless one. This could be a potential option, don’t think much of that fretless ‘mwah’ will be coming through when bowed anyways

Yeah, the Thomann guitar bow is so cheap, why don't you try? And then tell me how you like it.

I've been thinking of buying it "just for fun", but my "wise me" asks me to stop buying stupid toys made in China by small children just for fun.

 

[ahadl2500]

I have needed to do this in a few groups over the years. I do a roll with my pointer and index finger flat (playing above the strings instead of digging in) and hitting the strings with my finger tips. Changing the rate/how hard I hit changes the texture/lets me do swells.

To me it worked better for the effect I wanted than when I saw a friend of mine use a bow on an electric bass. I know most are going to say just get a double bass. Sometimes that is not practical for the given job.

 

[Michael Vee]

@FatBassTone - does your production have any other violin family string players? Or is it a typical community production with a keyboard player playing the string parts?

Also, has the music director specifically asked you to play upright bass? If there are no string players, and the MD did not specifically ask for upright bass, pay NO attention to the bass book saying it's written for upright.

I got fed up years ago with MDs pushing for upright bass in shows with electric keyboards instead of acoustic piano, and no strings. Why would the bass need to be an upright if there is no string section and no acoustic piano? I just went ahead and played a very mellow acoustic electric. Everyone was still happy and I was invited to keep playing those shows. The further away you can get the sound and look from a Fender or other electric, the better for these shows. It's imperative to get everything right and play great, though, obviously.

Specifically regarding your question- It typically doesn't matter that much if you are not playing all the way through a long bowed passage. My approach is to lightly tap the string every couple of measures to keep the note sustaining. I have also done a rapid right-hand finger flutter to approximate the effect of a bow. This works best if you do it close to the bridge saddle, and try not to create much attack that makes it sound like rapid individual notes. A technique that's probably better shown than described. It is not going to sound like a bowed passage, but the sound and pitch is there at least.

More about the theatre sound- I have tried many different basses to get a more mellow, acoustic bass sound. I really like my Ibanez AFB200- it works great with either D'Addario Chromes or tapewound strings. Some of the other basses I've used, and still have are: Epiphone Zeniths, Douglas Viola, Ibanez AGB200, AEGB24E, for examples. I've done string mutes and foam blocks but never really liked that.

If you can get your frequency response to approximate that of an upright, you're close. An AEB is never going to sound exactly like an upright, but close enough for most community and school productions.

Then there are all those modern shows that are specifically written for electric bass, and five-string electric bass..

 

[Michael Vee]

I have needed to do this in a few groups over the years. I do a roll with my pointer and index finger flat (playing above the strings instead of digging in) and hitting the strings with my finger tips. Changing the rate/how hard I hit changes the texture/lets me do swells.

To me it worked better for the effect I wanted than when I saw a friend of mine use a bow on an electric bass. I know most are going to say just get a double bass. Sometimes that is not practical for the given job.

Ahadl beat me to this. He's describing the same thing I was talking about. It's a pretty standard technique used to play long sustained notes written as an arco part.

Permit me to get on a soapbox for a bit. "Just get a double bass." HA. Really? Your reply should be: "You going to pay for it? Pay for my lessons? You going to buy me a car big enough to haul one of those around?" (Myself, I drive a Prius, not a crossover or a pickup.)

It is NOT a trivial exercise for a bass guitar player to move to playing an upright. It's not as simple as just buying one! Going from 34" scale to 42" scale is very challenging. The technique of upright is nearly totally different from that of electric. Plus- you have to have the hands to play upright. Players with smaller hands, like me, will find upright to be painful and tiring, plus you are moving your hand position much more than players with larger hands. In the lowest positions, the reach from lower notes to higher notes in the same position is difficult. Then there is bowing! Learning to bow proficiently takes a great deal of practice, and arguably is best learned with a teacher, and lessons cost money. Well, all of it is best learned with a teacher, to do it well.

Then there is the cost of a decent quality upright, bow, and case. They ain't cheap at all these days unless you find a great deal on a used one. Then you probably will have to spring for a pickup, preamp, and/or microphone.

There are many considerations that make the remark of "just get a double bass" an impractical and dumb remark. Someone who says something like that doesn't know what they are talking about. It is much easier to do some of the things I mentioned in my previous post on an AEB. Find ways to make the acoustic/electric work.

There are always going to be those snob music directors who simply will not hire you if you don't already play upright, and in my area, there are those, typically alumni of a university music school that think there is only one way to do things. To me, bass is bass, it can be done with bass guitar as well. The most important thing is to get a good sound, play well, and enjoy what you're doing. You really do have to love music theatre to put up with some of the vexations of the productions and do this over a long period.

 

[ahadl2500]

There are always going to be those snob music directors who simply will not hire you if you don't already play upright, and in my area, there are those, typically alumni of a university music school that think there is only one way to do things.

A bit of a thread derailment, but need to call out that these types chased me away from playing in my school's Jazz bands in college. College I went to had several Jazz bands, but they only played older big band Jazz pieces. I learned double bass to play in the band for a year and quickly became tired of the music. To the "academics" at that school, Jazz stopped in the 40s... which is crazy to me.

Bringing it back to the thread... if the needs of the group do not align with yours, go find one that does. In OPs case, it seems they have flexibility to make some choices and get the job done. Appreciate that when it happens as you do not always get the flexibility you should.

 

[BarfanyShart]

A simple volume pedal does this just fine, and a bunch of compressor before the volume pedal makes it easier. You pluck the string while volume is most (not all) of the way down, swell/sustain musically with the pedal, bring the volume back down right before the next pluck. It's a legitimate musical technique, but one you can teach yourself in an afternoon. I was a DB guy, so I have probably supported the "just play DB" sentiment in the past, but I have grown and changed over the years.

 

[RandomKaren]

Ebow works on bass with a bit of practice but it's not easy on the outer strings. But on the E A and D strings on my Maruszczyk fretless 5 I was able to make it work consistently. Not sure it sounds much like a bowed upright though

 

[Esteban Garcia]

It's not practical to bow a bass guitar, because the strings are arranged flat, not arched. You might be able to bow the highest and lowest strings, but it's all but impossible to pick out a single string from the inside. Ebows and guitar bows are novelties with no serious musical use IMO.

I agree with the above advice on just playing electric bass.

 

[Cartentoya]

You need the Ehx Superego pedal or, even better, the Superego +. You have the latch mode, or sustain mode(like piano pedal), eveem the auto mode, and, with a little practice, will help you to obtain en ebow kind of effect.

 

[ole Jason]

Talk to your music director. I would absolutely not use effects like the Superego, etc. without verifying that's what they want. I'd all but guarantee they'll just tell you to play the parts as normal on electric.

Using effects is not the right way to go here unless the director really wants that.

 

[gtirard]

I've found some of the playing techniques described above most inspiring, would love to see demo videos in order to understand fully how it works.

 

[lunarpollen]

I've been able to get decent bowed sounds by using a reverb pedal that has a really good very quick decay "room" style reverb. It needs to have an extremely short minimum decay, a control that allows for 100% wet signal, and a volume control to boost the output a bit to match the level of the bypassed/dry sound. You will need to have strings that have decent sustain, and you would only use the pickup closest to the neck.

 

[RandomKaren]

It's not practical to bow a bass guitar, because the strings are arranged flat, not arched. You might be able to bow the highest and lowest strings, but it's all but impossible to pick out a single string from the inside. Ebows and guitar bows are novelties with no serious musical use IMO.

That's a little harsh re the Ebow It's on tracks by David Bowie, Blue Oyster Cult, U2, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead and REM. They are great to use on guitar.

 

[Esteban Garcia]

That's a little harsh re the Ebow It's on tracks by David Bowie, Blue Oyster Cult, U2, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead and REM. They are great to use on guitar.

Sorry, didn't mean to be harsh! Should qualify that for bass, in a pro setting, i.e. theater pit with a part written arco, you either play upright arco or you play electric as others above have noted above. Trying to bow a bass guitar in this context really isn't a serious option.

In a rock setting, sure, have fun, anything goes!

Would add to the above conversation about if other string parts being played on keys, I would even consider either bringing my own keyboard and playing the bass part with a good orchestral patch or just letting the keyboard player cover those parts if it's not the whole show.

 

[Wasnex]

Hi all,

I’ve recently been enlisted to play a musical, and I very much do not play double bass however there are parts of the musical that are bowed double bass. For the overall sound I’ll be using my Ibanez SRF705 with the piezo, as the parts also require 5 strings and I’ll already be using the magnetic pickups for the fretless parts. My question is, how does one emulate the bow, more specifically the length of the notes. I’ve looked into Ebows, Aeons, Joyos and sustainer pedals, but I’m wondering if any of you have any experience with this field, and what you would recommend

I have played around with an Ebow. It takes time for the sound to build up. A bowed note is pretty much immediate. So playing a line across strings with an Ebow is probably not really going to be very effective

I would say, the best you could probably do is get good at using a volume pedal to play swells. You roll the volume on and off to simulate the soft attack of legato bowed notes. A volume pedal can also be used to create the perception of more sustain.

A compressor can also be used for added sustain.

This video uses the bass's volume control for swells. IMHO, a volume pedal is better.



I am sure there are various pedals that reduce attack. Here is one example (with guitar).

I think you will probably be better off with a volume pedal.

Another rabbit hole you can dive down is using some sort of distortion pedal to create produce the raspy quality of bowed notes. My guess is poorly implemented distortion could really turn people off. So try to be tasteful. Best results may require parallel processing so you can mix your clean and distorted signals to taste.

 

[evanrunyon]

Ahadl beat me to this. He's describing the same thing I was talking about. It's a pretty standard technique used to play long sustained notes written as an arco part.

Permit me to get on a soapbox for a bit. "Just get a double bass." HA. Really? Your reply should be: "You going to pay for it? Pay for my lessons? You going to buy me a car big enough to haul one of those around?" (Myself, I drive a Prius, not a crossover or a pickup.)

It is NOT a trivial exercise for a bass guitar player to move to playing an upright. It's not as simple as just buying one! Going from 34" scale to 42" scale is very challenging. The technique of upright is nearly totally different from that of electric. Plus- you have to have the hands to play upright. Players with smaller hands, like me, will find upright to be painful and tiring, plus you are moving your hand position much more than players with larger hands. In the lowest positions, the reach from lower notes to higher notes in the same position is difficult. Then there is bowing! Learning to bow proficiently takes a great deal of practice, and arguably is best learned with a teacher, and lessons cost money. Well, all of it is best learned with a teacher, to do it well.

Then there is the cost of a decent quality upright, bow, and case. They ain't cheap at all these days unless you find a great deal on a used one. Then you probably will have to spring for a pickup, preamp, and/or microphone.

There are many considerations that make the remark of "just get a double bass" an impractical and dumb remark. Someone who says something like that doesn't know what they are talking about. It is much easier to do some of the things I mentioned in my previous post on an AEB. Find ways to make the acoustic/electric work.

There are always going to be those snob music directors who simply will not hire you if you don't already play upright, and in my area, there are those, typically alumni of a university music school that think there is only one way to do things. To me, bass is bass, it can be done with bass guitar as well. The most important thing is to get a good sound, play well, and enjoy what you're doing. You really do have to love music theatre to put up with some of the vexations of the productions and do this over a long period.

Agree, totally impractical for a host of reasons. But I must take issue with one point; I drive a Fiat 500. It’s great; fits upright, electric, amp, stool and music stand, and I never have to give anyone a ride to the gig.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Ahadl beat me to this. He's describing the same thing I was talking about. It's a pretty standard technique used to play long sustained notes written as an arco part.

Permit me to get on a soapbox for a bit. "Just get a double bass." HA. Really? Your reply should be: "You going to pay for it? Pay for my lessons? You going to buy me a car big enough to haul one of those around?" (Myself, I drive a Prius, not a crossover or a pickup.)

It is NOT a trivial exercise for a bass guitar player to move to playing an upright. It's not as simple as just buying one! Going from 34" scale to 42" scale is very challenging. The technique of upright is nearly totally different from that of electric. Plus- you have to have the hands to play upright. Players with smaller hands, like me, will find upright to be painful and tiring, plus you are moving your hand position much more than players with larger hands. In the lowest positions, the reach from lower notes to higher notes in the same position is difficult. Then there is bowing! Learning to bow proficiently takes a great deal of practice, and arguably is best learned with a teacher, and lessons cost money. Well, all of it is best learned with a teacher, to do it well.

Then there is the cost of a decent quality upright, bow, and case. They ain't cheap at all these days unless you find a great deal on a used one. Then you probably will have to spring for a pickup, preamp, and/or microphone.

There are many considerations that make the remark of "just get a double bass" an impractical and dumb remark. Someone who says something like that doesn't know what they are talking about. It is much easier to do some of the things I mentioned in my previous post on an AEB. Find ways to make the acoustic/electric work.

There are always going to be those snob music directors who simply will not hire you if you don't already play upright, and in my area, there are those, typically alumni of a university music school that think there is only one way to do things. To me, bass is bass, it can be done with bass guitar as well. The most important thing is to get a good sound, play well, and enjoy what you're doing. You really do have to love music theatre to put up with some of the vexations of the productions and do this over a long period.

As a double bass player, my only criticism of this "rant" is the car part, my upright does actually fit in a Prius... (wink emoji!)
This should be a sticky somewhere