Em9 to Bm7: why does E to A 'work'?

[TreySonagras]

A is one of the notes of the pentatonic scale that would fit over both of those chords.
Also the B Dorian mode is what could be played over the Bm7. This can be built by playing the A major scale starting on B.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

With all of the extended chords it is worth looking at possible alternative names. For example, Bm7/A, if there is no other B note in your voicing (which is likely with a typical guitar voicing), is really D major in second inversion...
Bm7 = B, D, F#, A
D = D, F#, A
Even with the A in the bass it is still D major. Even if you put a B back in higher up it really is more like D6/A than Bm7. Sometimes chord extensions just cause confusion and ambiguity. If you are in the key of D and want the relative minor vi chord you might find just the straightforward Bm triad in root position to be more satisfactory.

Emin9 = Gmaj7/E
Gmaj7 - G B D F#
Let's construct the seventh chords (ascending) by stacking triads (diatonically), not(!) inverting chords.
B D F# A = Bmin7
D F# A C = D7
F# A C E = F#min7b5
A C E G = Amin7
C E G B = Cmaj7
E G B D = Emin7
and
G B D F# = Gmaj7.

Now.
That "strange" chord construction of Bmin7/A sounds more like
G major/A, or Gmaj7/A or Gmaj9/A - a relative of "big" Sus family, with various "flavors."
Most probable resolution to D(maj7).

 

[brianrost]

Now I'm playing an Fmaj9 - Abmaj9 - Ebmaj9 - C7 progression

Another option is F Eb D C...nice descending line

Eb is the V of the Ab chord, D is the maj7 of the Eb chord

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Another option is F Eb D C...nice descending line

Eb is the V of the Ab chord, D is the maj7 of the Eb chord

The upper chord of Fmaj9 is Amin7 with the bass note F
The Abmaj9 chord is Cmin7/Ab. There are other bass note possibilities with Abmaj9 before Ab - F, or Bb.

What if we play the bass not A with that Cmin7 chord as some Cmin13?


Fmaj9 - Abmaj9 - Ebmaj9 - C7 as (upper chords)

Amin7 - Cmin7 - Gmin7 and C7

 

[Phlipper]

Thanks for the info, all. The chord construction chapter is filling in some gaps.

Instead of wailing away at scales and modes with a metronome I find a no-bass backing track for each mode and play over that. Then start branching out from there. Trying to name each note as I do so. Then I play it again arpeggiating the notes of each chord, again trying to name each note.

Its helping.

 

[micguy]

I think "music should sound pleasing" is maybe a good turn of phrase for total beginners but I hope no one carries that advice through their entire career.

I've been playing music for 54 years now. Although I understand both music theory and the psychoacoustics behind why music theory is relevant, the one thing that really does matter is if the music sounds pleasing (or conveys whatever emotion you want it to have). I'm perfectly happy to carry and regularly consult that "bad" advice.

 

[micguy]

One of the things I love about fretless is now I have unlimited wrong notes.

Theoreticaly, it unlocks the perfect notes, as you are no longer tied to equal temperament, but practically....yeah, you're absolutely right. If you need any convincing about the power of fretless to open the field of bad notes, listen to any grade school orchestra. Unless you're completely tone deaf, you'll understand.

 

[SteveCS]

Emin9 = Gmaj7/E
Gmaj7 - G B D F#
Let's construct the seventh chords (ascending) by stacking triads (diatonically), not(!) inverting chords.
B D F# A = Bmin7
D F# A C = D7
F# A C E = F#min7b5
A C E G = Amin7
C E G B = Cmaj7
E G B D = Emin7
and
G B D F# = Gmaj7.

Now.
That "strange" chord construction of Bmin7/A sounds more like
G major/A, or Gmaj7/A or Gmaj9/A - a relative of "big" Sus family, with various "flavors."
Most probable resolution to D(maj7).

I think that trying to characterise a chord as X when the Root (G) of X is missing, in the most likely guitar voicing the 3rd (B) of X is missing, and when another non-triad tone (A) is in the bass is somewhat fanciful. Or maybe just my 'lowest common denominator' methods (we have a D, an F# and an A therefore D major - everything else is gravy), coupled with the fact that it sounds like D major, are playing tricks on me. YMMV.

 

[ole Jason]

I've been playing music for 54 years now. Although I understand both music theory and the psychoacoustics behind why music theory is relevant, the one thing that really does matter is if the music sounds pleasing (or conveys whatever emotion you want it to have). I'm perfectly happy to carry and regularly consult that "bad" advice.

My point being that "pleasing" is somewhat subjective. One shouldn't take the adjective to mean a musician should always seek consonance.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Thanks for the info, all. The chord construction chapter is filling in some gaps.

Instead of wailing away at scales and modes with a metronome I find a no-bass backing track for each mode and play over that. Then start branching out from there. Trying to name each note as I do so. Then I play it again arpeggiating the notes of each chord, again trying to name each note.

Its helping.

Let's re-write your Fmaj9 chord movement in order to better "demonstrate" my amateur vision.

Here is how it sounds with Guitar Pro (plus the metronome).

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...3/?temp_hash=293c516cfcd4acfead29006b4c9257e5

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Now I'm playing an Fmaj9 - Abmaj9 - Ebmaj9 - C7 progression

The same chord progression (with D in the bass with C7), just a "happy" one, as in "Happy New Year, to you and to everyone!"

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...4/?temp_hash=80ddb283d69d4eb18044ac9bd3c5d355

 

[MDBass]

Can someone explain, as if to a total neewb ...

I'm playing to a slow progression of Em9 to Bm7. Why do the roots E to A sound correct? Why does it sound more correct/more musical than roots E to B?

A is the m7 of B, so you’re still playing a note in the chord: your ears are just confused about the root note of that Bm7 chord.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Using the roots E and A makes it sound more like i to IV, using E and B makes it sound like i to v...very diffferent feeling.

This is pretty much all it is. Y'all are making this way too complicated.

 

[Phlipper]

I'm playing a progression Fmaj9 - Ab maj9 - EB maj9 - C7 and I find that working solely from the F everything sounds 'correct' and musical. Or just using a single 'root' note I play F - Ab - Bb - A and it sounds perfect. Doesn't make sense but it sounds perfect.

I've played lead guitar and bass by ear for over 40 years and never thought about the theory. Now in my old age and doing a music theory course I wanna know "How can I stay in F and it works?!" or "How can an F - Ab - Bb - A sound better than playing the chord root and 3rds and 5ths?!". Something is wrong in the universe.

Lol

 

[Groove Master]

Can someone explain, as if to a total neewb ...

I'm playing to a slow progression of Em9 to Bm7. Why do the roots E to A sound correct? Why does it sound more correct/more musical than roots E to B?

E min to B min is very closed to a II-V-I in D Maj. The Bmin7 is a D/B so having the A in the bass is like having a D/A that wants to resolve to AMaj(A7 in this case) , a very common suspended sound.

I hope you understand this ;-)

 

[Whousedtoplay]

"How can I stay in F and it works?!

F and Fmaj9 - no problem.
F with a borrowed Fmin11 (Abmaj9) - no problem.
F with Ebmaj9 - it's the family of "sus" chords, starting with Eb/F.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

"How can an F - Ab - Bb - A sound better

Let's look at that C7 chord with the bass note, A.
(Ascending).
A - C - E - G - Bb = Am7(b9). It's a very pleasant chord.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I'm playing a progression Fmaj9 - Ab maj9 - EB maj9 - C7 and I find that working solely from the F everything sounds 'correct' and musical.

About that F with all those other chords.

Google, "Pedal point".
"In music, a pedal point (also pedal note, organ point, pedal tone, or pedal) is a sustained tone, typically in the bass, during which at least one foreign (i.e. dissonant) harmony is sounded in the other parts. A pedal point sometimes functions as a "non-chord tone", placing it in the categories alongside suspensions, retardations, and passing tones."

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Y'all are making this way too complicated.

It's complicated due to lack of Harmony knowledge.

 

[brianrost]

I'm playing a progression Fmaj9 - Ab maj9 - EB maj9 - C7 and I find that working solely from the F everything sounds 'correct' and musical. Or just using a single 'root' note I play F - Ab - Bb - A and it sounds perfect. Doesn't make sense but it sounds perfect.

But what are you playing along with?

That's the sort of thing that causes your bandmates turn around and ask you to stick to the original chords. In a performance you have to deal with clashes with what others are playing. You can also choose to respond to the extensions you hear others playing.