EMBB Caprice/Cutlass & Fender Dimension, Why they didn't catch on.

[metron]

Allow me to play Devil's Advo...

Things that are different or unfamiliar can also be "pointless".

Example: If my brand XYZ item works perfectly for my needs and wants, explain to me why I need to look further, spend more money on another product, in the hope that the "new thing" may (or may not be) "better" in some infinitesimal and totally subjective way.

IOW the question poised is "why"? It would seem that the only logical answer is GAS. And we all know what GAS really is...(dare I say it?)

Well I was being a bit sardonic at the time. I realize your question is rhetorical but... new bass designs are pointless? Not quite sure I understand?

I do like the Caprice design but for the price, no thanks.

 

[Groovegestapo]

Brad Paisleys bassist on the CMA's playing a sunburst Caprice last night

 

[Iridescentone]

Well I was being a bit sardonic at the time. I realize your question is rhetorical but... new bass designs are pointless? Not quite sure I understand?

I do like the Caprice design but for the price, no thanks.

I get it, but are the Cutlass and Caprice really that much of a "new design"? Or are we talking about EBMM's notion of a Pbass, and a PJ-ish bass with a rear humbucker, that may sound a bit different than another builder's PJ with a dual-coil rear pickup? Are these two EBMM models really that much of a radical departure from the norm, or are they more of a distinction without a difference?

I think EBMM's Big Al and Reflex were daring new designs, although now defunct. A Pbass clone?....not so much. YMMV

 

[Stranger Danger]

I don't want to speculate on the market but there were things about both that I did not care for:

Caprice and Cutlass:

Vintage fretboard radius is a non starter for me.

Pole pieces not lining up with strings is also a non starter at that price point.

Dimension:

Short upper horn=neck dive.

Tone was lacking.

Just my impressions from considering, playing and ultimately passing on those basses.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I've written in other posts on this subject that the apparent lack of success of the Caprice and Cutlass had nothing whatsoever to do with the product, but by incredibly bad strategy. Based on everything that I saw and heard, these basses had a bunch of critical acclaim and were actually selling decently well following their introduction in 2016.

So - what did MusicMan do? They raised the prices about 30% (a big no-no in a market where there are lots of good choices available - especially when you cross the $2K threshold). As others have pointed out, Caprice and Cutlass models are more expensive than StingRay models (which have a preamp and more controls - which should make them cost more). Although I don't have any specifics, I bet EBMM got greedy and thought they could get away with a much higher price. When any product gets a value established for it in the market, raising the price by a significant amount is damned near impossible.

I think there is plenty of room in the market for the Cutlass and Caprice to succeed, but they need to be priced in the $1,500 street price range max. Yeah - these could be re-introduced as Asian built models, but I bet they'd do better as what they were conceived as - good quality, but feature-basic well made instruments.

The new Stingrays are $2099 and worth every penny of that in my estimation. The Caprice and Cutlass are nice but not in the same category as far as I'm concerned. I think that their business model and the financial realities of producing the quality of instruments that they produce in SLO was the reason for the increase. If the product is good it will sell.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The new Stingrays are $2099 and worth every penny of that in my estimation. The Caprice and Cutlass are nice but not in the same category as far as I'm concerned. I think that their business model and the financial realities of producing the quality of instruments that they produce in SLO was the reason for the increase. If the product is good it will sell.

The Caprice doesn't have active electronics, but it's very much the equal of the Special in terms of quality and tone. I'd say that the Caprice is more versatile than the Special. My Caprice is probably my favorite four string, even though I like my Special.

 

[metron]

I get it, but are the Cutlass and Caprice really that much of a "new design"? Or are we talking about EBMM's notion of a Pbass, and a PJ-ish bass with a rear humbucker, that may sound a bit different than another builder's PJ with a dual-coil rear pickup? Are these two EBMM models really that much of a radical departure from the norm, or are they more of a distinction without a difference?

I think EBMM's Big Al and Reflex were daring new designs, although now defunct. A Pbass clone?....not so much. YMMV

I agree. For what it's worth, I bought an SB-2 and I'm pleased with the choice I made.

 

[Iridescentone]

I do like the Caprice design but for the price, no thanks.

Yeah the price seems to be the deciding factor for their demise. There is always a $$ tipping point for virtually every consumer product, at which point sales drop off sharply.

 

[Stranger Danger]

The Caprice doesn't have active electronics, but it's very much the equal of the Special in terms of quality and tone. I'd say that the Caprice is more versatile than the Special. My Caprice is probably my favorite four string, even though I like my Special.

That is certainly your right as you own both. I do not agree based on owning the SRS HH and only playing the Caprice for about an hour total. I can't imagine how the Caprice could be more versatile than the HH Ray with a 3 band eq but ymmv

 

[Stranger Danger]

The Caprice doesn't have active electronics, but it's very much the equal of the Special in terms of quality and tone. I'd say that the Caprice is more versatile than the Special. My Caprice is probably my favorite four string, even though I like my Special.

Also the misaligned pole pieces and unbalanced body shape really bothered me but those are personal hang ups

 

[MultiScaleMale]

That is certainly your right as you own both. I do not agree based on owning the SRS HH and only playing the Caprice for about an hour total. I can't imagine how the Caprice could be more versatile than the HH Ray with a 3 band eq but ymmv

I own both. Not trying to argue or anything, but I really like the Caprice config. I wish that they would, at least, make the PJ pickup an available option on the SRS. Then it's just a routing option on their end. I guess there is a different board needed as well, but you get my point.

 

[dxb]

I don't want to speculate on the market but there were things about both that I did not care for:

Caprice and Cutlass:

Vintage fretboard radius is a non starter for me.

Pole pieces not lining up with strings is also a non starter at that price point.

Dimension:

Short upper horn=neck dive.

Tone was lacking.

Just my impressions from considering, playing and ultimately passing on those basses.

I wouldn't describe the sound of my Dimensions as 'lacking,' but then again that term is uselessly vague. Its also hard to generalize about the tone since there were active and passive models, as well as single and double humbucker models. One even had a triplebucker.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I wouldn't describe the sound of my Dimensions as 'lacking,' but then again that term is uselessly vague. Its also hard to generalize about the tone since there were active and passive models, as well as single and double humbucker models. One even had a triplebucker.

You're right. I was summarizing rather than going into details

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

That is certainly your right as you own both. I do not agree based on owning the SRS HH and only playing the Caprice for about an hour total. I can't imagine how the Caprice could be more versatile than the HH Ray with a 3 band eq but ymmv

I own both . Very pleased with both.
I don't compare them . 2 completely different models . They bring something completely different to the table . I appreciate the differences .
When I bought my Caprice before the price hike , I thought it was worth every penny. Same with my Special5.
Still do.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I own both . Very pleased with both.
I don't compare them . 2 completely different models . They bring something completely different to the table . I appreciate the differences .
When I bought my Caprice before the price hike , I thought it was worth every penny. Same with my Special5.
Still do.

Yeah when I was looking at them they were ~$1200

 

[Gizmot]

The new Stingrays are $2099 and worth every penny of that in my estimation. The Caprice and Cutlass are nice but not in the same category as far as I'm concerned. I think that their business model and the financial realities of producing the quality of instruments that they produce in SLO was the reason for the increase. If the product is good it will sell.

No argument about the Stingrays - they are nice. EBMM's problem on the Caprice and Cutlass is that they were trying to sell these for the same or higher prices than the Stingrays! The Caprice that I bought is terrific and if the price on them were $1500 - $1600, they would sell AND they would be able to offer customers a viable step-up to Stingray with active EQ and more deluxe finishes. I don't believe that EBMM wasn't profitable when the Caprice and Cutlass were selling for what they did when they were introduced. I believe that they got greedy and learned that you can't raise prices on a product by 30% and expect it to sell.

 

[Stranger Danger]

No argument about the Stingrays - they are nice. EBMM's problem on the Caprice and Cutlass is that they were trying to sell these for the same or higher prices than the Stingrays! The Caprice that I bought is terrific and if the price on them were $1500 - $1600, they would sell AND they would be able to offer customers a viable step-up to Stingray with active EQ and more deluxe finishes. I don't believe that EBMM wasn't profitable when the Caprice and Cutlass were selling for what they did when they were introduced. I believe that they got greedy and learned that you can't raise prices on a product by 30% and expect it to sell.

It certainly is possible that it was simple greed but from what I've seen and read it doesn't seem like that's the case. I'm only basing that on what I've read and seen online

 

[JoeWPgh]

Price increases are inevitable. Costs for material and labor go up every year. But when you try to hold the line on price increases, you will then have to make the adjustment all at once. I think EBMM would have been better off to have incrementally increased their prices over time, as opposed to one steep jump.

 

[Bass Viking]

I was up there a few days ago and an older gentleman was trying fenders and wanted a P bass with a jazz-style neck, and he wanted something Californian-made. Well, I suggested he try the EBMM a few times for a few reasons, but he refused to try anything that didn't have Fender on the headstock. Some people are just too conservative to even attempt change.

I hope I never become closed-minded like that!

Personally, I have an Ibanez, a Roscoe, a Squier, an SBMM, a (Korean-made) Conklin, and an NS Design electric upright. I have no real brand loyalty, because I believe that all manufacturers have strengths and weaknesses, and that those can change over time.

Totally agree. I own/have owned all those brands you mentioned (except SBMM). Where the instrument is made is much less of a factor than it used to be.
​

 

[P. Aaron]

Really is a pity. I thought the Dimension line was one of the best things Fender came out with in a long time. It wasn't a very original or groundbreaking design. More an extension of what came before along with a few borrowings from Gibson, Godin, and ErnieBall. But who really cares? It was a nicely executed modern bass that hit several sweet spots at a reasonable price point. Too bad it received such halfhearted marketing and some of the most uninspiring official "pro demo" videos imaginable.

I get the feeling it was a controversial product inside Fender. No company willingly cannibalizes its own customer base or divides its demographic with too many competing choices. And I really think the Dimension's only real chance was if it had become an overnight sensation. And when it didn't, that was all the justification (excuse?) some at Fender needed to make it go away and have the company retreat back to their time tested strategy of milking its two cash cows for all they're worth.

IMO The Dimension died mainly through a lack of commitment on the part of Fender and an overall lack of interest on the part of its existing customer base. It was a product created to lure new customers to Fender rather than appeal to its tradition bound current customers. And unfortunately there wasn't enough "special sauce" in it to win new customers who didn't want a PB or JB.

Small wonder Fender let it wither on the vine. It'll be a collectible sleeper some day if you feel like waiting 10-20 years for it to happen.

Funny thing is, I ran the rack on active EBMM's, even bought & played a Big Al 5 for about a year but couldn't bond with any of them. I had my Precision V which rocked but the Country thing seemed to need an almost studio processed tone and I wanted that sound. Stumbled upon a Dimension 5 Deluxe in a music store on an out of town gig and looked for one locally and got lucky. I bonded with it right away and it's worked well for me for Country, rock or Herb Alpert type stuff. It sounds like a Fender bass and supports the music nicely. An active bass always seems to need a bit more amp & cab behind it tho'. No matter the venue. I had even greater success with it when we ran it into the Bose System. It had that tone, the depth and never walked on any other part of the music.

I used Ernie Ball strings (fluorescent yellow pack 130-45). Just switched out for DR Sunbeams for the heck of it. I love my Dimension almost as much as my Precision V.