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Eminence Beta 15 vs Delta 15 for Bassman cab

B

benzomite

Sep 26, 2011
4
1
#1
Hello knowledgeable people at Talkbass!

I have a 70s fender bassman 100 amp and 4x12 cabinet. I'm going to convert the cabinet into a 2x15. I believe I've read all post related to this topic, and I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to either the Eminence Beta 15 A or Delta 15 A.

I have very limited understanding of thiele-small parameters etc, and I don't know how to use winISD, so I'm asking simple advice in layman's terms.

The cabinet is sealed, and has an internal volume of approximately 9 cu.ft. The enclosure size recommended for these drivers in a sealed cab is 1.6-2.2 cu. ft. for the Beta 15, and 1.3-1.5 for the Delta 15. My cab will have about 4.5 cu. ft per speaker. Is there any disadvantages to mounting the drivers in a cabinet that's bigger than the recommended size? I believe I've read that the 'ideal' enclosure size will be a lot bigger than the 'recommended' size..
And does the larger recommended enclosure size for the Beta mean that it will be better suited for a big cabinet like mine?

Given that they both could work in my cab, any opinions on the differences in sound and performance between the Beta 15 and Delta 15 would be highly appreciated!

I'm also a bit curious about whether the Eminence Legend cb15 would work and give me any sonic improvements compared with these?

The cabinet will be used for bass with the 100w bassman head.

cheers
 
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#3
Let me know how it turns out. I have a 135 I like the sound of. Had many different speakers under it trying to get "that sound" loud enough but aside from carrying a truckload of giant bins, failed every time. I'm in a more sane band now, intend on keeping it that way. Considering re-visiting the idea. Delta's look like they'd have just enough output, on paper anyway, for smallish gigs and stage volume elsewhere.
 
#5
will33 said:
Let me know how it turns out. I have a 135 I like the sound of. Had many different speakers under it trying to get "that sound" loud enough but aside from carrying a truckload of giant bins, failed every time. I'm in a more sane band now, intend on keeping it that way. Considering re-visiting the idea. Delta's look like they'd have just enough output, on paper anyway, for smallish gigs and stage volume elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Despite them not having as much xmax as the Beta, Deltas aren't wussy speakers. I've got them in my B-15 repro cabs, and I've slammed one pretty hard with a 300w amp and it took it and got way louder than I'll ever need. Don't know if I reached the 300w mark, but I had the amp's limiter tapping out before I had the cab farting. Plus they sound about identical to the 60's CTS speakers that Ampeg used. They're pretty loud speakers, really. The Betas might take a bit more but the Deltas take as much as I'd ever need.
 
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#6
JimmyM said:
Despite them not having as much xmax as the Beta, Deltas aren't wussy speakers. I've got them in my B-15 repro cabs, and I've slammed one pretty hard with a 300w amp and it took it and got way louder than I'll ever need. Don't know if I reached the 300w mark, but I had the amp's limiter tapping out before I had the cab farting. Plus they sound about identical to the 60's CTS speakers that Ampeg used. They're pretty loud speakers, really. The Betas might take a bit more but the Deltas take as much as I'd ever need.
Click to expand...

Ya, I recall you discussing them in your B15 cabs, and I trust your ear. I don't know if I'm just wierd or what. Old guys who had to play bassmans and showmans because there wasn't anything else say they sucked....I like them. Not for grit though, for the kinda "warm but clean" bounce you get with a P-bass. You can't turn them up very far before you start to lose that. It isn't really finding a speaker that can handle much power, it's finding one that gets loud enough with very little power. I've gone round and round with this with little success but in the back of my mind, there has to be that better mousetrap out there somewhere.:p
 
#7
billfitzmaurice said:
Delta 15. It's better in the mids, and the short xmax is no issue with the low power you have. BTW, the 'ideal' size for a Beta 12 is 27 cu ft, for the Delta 15 10 cu ft.
Click to expand...

Would you recommend these for non ported cabs? or strictly ported?

I'm contemplating trading a 2x12 Fender cab I have for a buddy's 2x15. I may just trading one problem for another however.
 
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#10
PawleeP said:
which speaker has too high Qts? for vented? the beta or delta.. have a delta 15 pro and I think Ampeg even used them in some of there vented (2 medium sixed ports) single 15
Click to expand...
Ampeg's always used speakers custom designed to their own specs since the 80's. And Bill was referring to the regular Delta 15a, not the Delta Pro.
 
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#15
PawleeP said:
thanx billm.. which speaker are you saying qts too high for vented on?
appreciate the help!
Click to expand...

Both the Beta 15a and the Delta 15a have Qts's that are on the high side for anything like a flatish alignment in a reasonable sized cab. They can produce alignments with a fairly strongly peaked mid-upper bass. Such alignments tend to produce a bass tone that is variously described as fat, bloomy or pillowy. Note definition is a little soft. Many players like that kind of tone - it's perfectly valid. OTOH, both are well suited to sealed cab use. In 2-3 cf sealed cabs both these drivers will produce tone with a somewhat rich mid-bass and pretty decent articulation.
 
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#16
benzomite said:
Hello knowledgeable people at Talkbass!

I have a 70s fender bassman 100 amp and 4x12 cabinet. I'm going to convert the cabinet into a 2x15. I believe I've read all post related to this topic, and I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to either the Eminence Beta 15 A or Delta 15 A.

I have very limited understanding of thiele-small parameters etc, and I don't know how to use winISD, so I'm asking simple advice in layman's terms.

The cabinet is sealed, and has an internal volume of approximately 9 cu.ft. The enclosure size recommended for these drivers in a sealed cab is 1.6-2.2 cu. ft. for the Beta 15, and 1.3-1.5 for the Delta 15. My cab will have about 4.5 cu. ft per speaker. Is there any disadvantages to mounting the drivers in a cabinet that's bigger than the recommended size? I believe I've read that the 'ideal' enclosure size will be a lot bigger than the 'recommended' size..
And does the larger recommended enclosure size for the Beta mean that it will be better suited for a big cabinet like mine?

Given that they both could work in my cab, any opinions on the differences in sound and performance between the Beta 15 and Delta 15 would be highly appreciated!

I'm also a bit curious about whether the Eminence Legend cb15 would work and give me any sonic improvements compared with these?

The cabinet will be used for bass with the 100w bassman head.

cheers
Click to expand...
is this for sealed or vented?
 
#17
JimmyM said:
Despite them not having as much xmax as the Beta, Deltas aren't wussy speakers. I've got them in my B-15 repro cabs, and I've slammed one pretty hard with a 300w amp and it took it and got way louder than I'll ever need. Don't know if I reached the 300w mark, but I had the amp's limiter tapping out before I had the cab farting. Plus they sound about identical to the 60's CTS speakers that Ampeg used. They're pretty loud speakers, really. The Betas might take a bit more but the Deltas take as much as I'd ever need.
Click to expand...

I play a hofner with a pick and flatwounds, with my hand muting at the bridge. The initial attack it full, rounded, and bassy, and causes speakers to move. I have experience, this type of playing will cause some speakers to rattle. Is that because ive been using speakers with not enough xmax? Just asking because im trying to decide between the delta or beta to go in my B15S.
 
#18
chuckfalcon said:
I play a hofner with a pick and flatwounds, with my hand muting at the bridge. The initial attack it full, rounded, and bassy, and causes speakers to move. I have experience, this type of playing will cause some speakers to rattle. Is that because ive been using speakers with not enough xmax? Just asking because im trying to decide between the delta or beta to go in my B15S.
Click to expand...
I probably wouldn't go for the Delta in a B-15S. I tried one in my 77 B-15N with the Thiele cab, and I thought it came off as mid scoopy. And since the B-15S cab looks a little larger than the B-15N cab of that era, I'd be afraid it would be more of the same. Beta I might, though.

However, I am not going by informed opinion of having a B-15S and trying both in them by any means. Just going by the specs and freq response charts and my fuzzy memory of a somewhat different amp I owned 10 years ago :D
 
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#19
Thanks Jimmy! You da man! I gonna be overhauling this thing. New or used (working) speaker, new foam strip that goes between, the head n cab, cap job (lord so many many caps in this one), probably some new tubes, new power cable, swap out the 4 prong xlr for a standard 1/4". Luckily I only paid $600 shipping and all.
 
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