Eminence Kappa Lite 3015 vs. Faital Pro 15PR400

[jnewmark]

I know I posted in this thread earlier, ( wish there was some quick way to find previous posts in a thread ), but my opinion of the Faital hasn't changed as far as a standalone 15 goes. I've tried both, and, imho, the Faital has a sweeter tone, kind of like the old JBL K140, with a very useable top end. The Emi sounds rather flat and dull to me by itself.

 

[Pulex]

I know I posted in this thread earlier, ( wish there was some quick way to find previous posts in a thread ), but my opinion of the Faital hasn't changed as far as a standalone 15 goes. I've tried both, and, imho, the Faital has a sweeter tone, kind of like the old JBL K140, with a very useable top end. The Emi sounds rather flat and dull to me by itself.

Alright, I think I'm going for the Faital. It's probably the better choice to run fullrange than the Kappalite 3015 (non-LF). With the Faital it might also be easier to dial in some more mids with the EQ than dialing in highs with the non-LF Kappalite.

 

[azfatboy]

IME, the Faitals and Eminence require the same sized cab and porting.

So.... If I built a fEARful 15sub cab, and put a Faital in there, I might achieve the same "full-range" that I would get with the 15/6 cab built with a 3015lf and 6" midrange driver??? If so, that would be not only a cost savings, but a space saver as well...

 

[ThisBass]

So.... If I built a fEARful 15sub cab, and put a Faital in there, I might achieve the same "full-range" that I would get with the 15/6 cab built with a 3015lf and 6" midrange driver??? If so, that would be not only a cost savings, but a space saver as well...

nah,
may be you may like the response of a full range running woofer, or either way may be it's not your cup of tea!
A full range running woofer can't substitute a 2-way cab design and a 2-way cab design can't substitude a full range running woofer.

If your sound goal is linear response and improved dispersion go with 2-way design rather with "voiced" full range running woofers.

 

[Passinwind]

So.... If I built a fEARful 15sub cab, and put a Faital in there, I might achieve the same "full-range" that I would get with the 15/6 cab built with a 3015lf and 6" midrange driver???

Nope, not even close at all.

 

[Korladis]

So.... If I built a fEARful 15sub cab, and put a Faital in there, I might achieve the same "full-range" that I would get with the 15/6 cab built with a 3015lf and 6" midrange driver??? If so, that would be not only a cost savings, but a space saver as well...

Nope. The 3015LF is a subwoofer. The 15PR400 is not. The cab isn't designed for it and it won't sound anything like what the 15/6 is supposed to sound. The 15PR400 can sometimes be used in place of the non-LF 3015, which is a full range driver.

The Greenboy Bassic and Dually cabs can, IIRC, be made with either a 15PR400 or a 3015 (non-LF version).

 

[azfatboy]

Sartori, That's a good explanation. Thanks!

 

[donahue]

Thread Revive part 2

Here goes: I have an empty Mesa Diesel 215 on its way. I want to hot rod it with either the 3015 or the 15PR400. I really like the sound of the stock Mesa Diesel 15 cabs but I want lighter weight and more power handling with emphasis on both.

Which driver will make the Mesa Diesel sound most like its original EV equipped form, 3015 or 15PR400?

 

[ThisBass]

Which driver will make the Mesa Diesel sound most like its original EV equipped form, 3015 or 15PR400?

IMO neither of them comes close to the EVM drivers.
Different design goals, different sound goals, and as well different application goals would lead to an apple to orange comparison
In rough words, the EVM driver is designed for MI application while the other ones are designed for pro audio application.
The EMV drivers are designed as high efficience drivers with rather smallish Xmax while the the other two drivers are designed for bass/mid application pro audio with rather medium to large Xmax and medium efficience.

The EVM drivers provide a pretty nice unique voicing (especially at overload range) while the other two drivers provide a rather smooth and tight response which is most often desirable with pro audio.
The EVM drivers can damp themself better (principle of eddy current brake) which may be a benefit if the cab shall be powered by a tube head.

If I had to do the choice between the two I'd go with the 15PR400 cause it's some "closer" to the EVM than the 3015, That's the more as the driver has to run full range without high-mid/treble support.

btw if the EVM 12 wasn't as heavy in weight as is then my 212 cab was loaded with these.

 

[donahue]

I thought the Greenboy Dually ran two 3015's full range? I've read through quite few threads where folks were putting 3015's into their Diesel cabs and really loving it. TB is where I got the idea. I guess I am going to rephrase.

Does anybody have first-hand experience with both the 3015 and the 15PR400 in a Mesa Diesel Cab? If so, which did you like better and why?

 

[ThisBass]

The diesel cab loaded with 15PR400 may work fine without modyfying the cabinet port diemnsion but,
I'm pretty sure cab tuning is to high for the 3015 thus there is need to adjust the tuning to get best results out of the cabinet.

In full range running mode without mids/treble support the 3015 will give you a mellow sound.
The 3015 is pretty good driver to provide extended lows IF the cabinet specs meet the needs of the driver.
As the Diesel is originally loaded with EVM 15L drivers there is a good chance that cabinet tuning is to highish for the 3015 thus the overall sound may become a muddy and loosen image.
Furthermore the mids are shy at best, in big contrast to the EVM voicing.

 

[Korladis]

I thought the Greenboy Dually ran two 3015's full range? I've read through quite few threads where folks were putting 3015's into their Diesel cabs and really loving it. TB is where I got the idea. I guess I am going to rephrase.

Does anybody have first-hand experience with both the 3015 and the 15PR400 in a Mesa Diesel Cab? If so, which did you like better and why?

The Dually can run either two 3015s or two 15PR400s.

The 3015 is NOT the same driver as the 3015LF.

 

[ThisBass]

The Dually can run either two 3015s or two 15PR400s.

The 3015 is NOT the same driver as the 3015LF.

Obviously I was totally confused
I'm sorry.

 

[donahue]

Yes, I'm talking the 3015HO full range driver mentioned earlier in the thread. I don't have experience with either 3015 or 15PR400 and just wanted to know which one will sound most like a stock Diesel cab.

 

[jnewmark]

I replied earlier in this thread of my preference for the Faital, and I still have that preference. My only problem with it is that I wish I had more top end, more of a tweeter sizzle. I know Duke previously voted for the 3015 if adding a tweeter, but I'm wondering if adding just a high pass filter with the Faital to a tweeter would get me where I want to go ? Any thoughts of adding a tweet or a mid range to the Faital ?

 

[5StringPocket]

I replied earlier in this thread of my preference for the Faital, and I still have that preference. My only problem with it is that I wish I had more top end, more of a tweeter sizzle. I know Duke previously voted for the 3015 if adding a tweeter, but I'm wondering if adding just a high pass filter with the Faital to a tweeter would get me where I want to go ? Any thoughts of adding a tweet or a mid range to the Faital ?

I have had cabs with both the Eminence 3015 and Faital 15PR400 and likewise prefer the way the Faital sounds. I built this 15/5 Faital cab with mid driver and have been very pleased with it.
Faital 15/5 Build
I built in a -2dB L-pad with switch for the mid driver and another switch to bypass the crossover and run the 15 full range. This allows three different modes to run the cab. Even though the 15PR400 has good high end extension for a 15 (noticeably more than the 3015) it still sounds too dark for me so I never use it. You can definitely use a tweeter like the Greenboy Dually T does. I won't speculate on the details of that crossover/filter. What I found was that crossing over just under 1500 Hz to that Faital M5N8-80 allows the 15" to provide the meat of the mids and lets the 5" provide what is missing. That 5" tops out between 6-8 kHz which pretty well covers what a bass puts out. -2dB attenuation provides the right mid balance since your ear is pretty sensitive to that frequency range. That mid makes a difference in a good way. It's smooth, present, voiced well, sounds good with overdrive, and really improves dispersion.
The 15PR400 also sounds more musical than the 3015 to me when driven hard. It compresses a bit but keeps the bottom solid.

 

[jnewmark]

I have had cabs with both the Eminence 3015 and Faital 15PR400 and likewise prefer the way the Faital sounds. I built this 15/5 Faital cab with mid driver and have been very pleased with it.
Faital 15/5 Build
I built in a -2dB L-pad with switch for the mid driver and another switch to bypass the crossover and run the 15 full range. This allows three different modes to run the cab. Even though the 15PR400 has good high end extension for a 15 (noticeably more than the 3015) it still sounds too dark for me so I never use it. You can definitely use a tweeter like the Greenboy Dually T does. I won't speculate on the details of that crossover/filter. What I found was that crossing over just under 1500 Hz to that Faital M5N8-80 allows the 15" to provide the meat of the mids and lets the 5" provide what is missing. -2dB attenuation provides the right balance since your ear is pretty sensitive to mids. That mid makes a difference in a good way. It's smooth, present, voiced well, sounds good with overdrive, and really improves dispersion.
The 15PR400 sounds more musical than the 3015 to me when driven hard. It compresses a bit but keeps the bottom solid.

Excellent, just what I was looking for !

 

[PawleeP]

I thought the Greenboy Dually ran two 3015's full range? I've read through quite few threads where folks were putting 3015's into their Diesel cabs and really loving it. TB is where I got the idea. I guess I am going to rephrase.

Does anybody have first-hand experience with both the 3015 and the 15PR400 in a Mesa Diesel Cab? If so, which did you like better and why?

I remember reading about this idea somewhere.. (have one of these too) yet have not gigged with it in a while (kinda big, lol) but i think the cab may be a little to much in volume ideally (per chamber) in cf for the full range 3015. p

 

[ThisBass]

I have had cabs with both the Eminence 3015 and Faital 15PR400 and likewise prefer the way the Faital sounds. I built this 15/5 Faital cab with mid driver and have been very pleased with it.
Faital 15/5 Build
I built in a -2dB L-pad with switch for the mid driver and another switch to bypass the crossover and run the 15 full range. This allows three different modes to run the cab. Even though the 15PR400 has good high end extension for a 15 (noticeably more than the 3015) it still sounds too dark for me so I never use it. You can definitely use a tweeter like the Greenboy Dually T does. I won't speculate on the details of that crossover/filter. What I found was that crossing over just under 1500 Hz to that Faital M5N8-80 allows the 15" to provide the meat of the mids and lets the 5" provide what is missing. That 5" tops out between 6-8 kHz which pretty well covers what a bass puts out. -2dB attenuation provides the right mid balance since your ear is pretty sensitive to that frequency range. That mid makes a difference in a good way. It's smooth, present, voiced well, sounds good with overdrive, and really improves dispersion.
The 15PR400 also sounds more musical than the 3015 to me when driven hard. It compresses a bit but keeps the bottom solid.

Nice review that actually confirms my experience that EVM drivers can't be directly substituted.
The most tricky thing is to align the EVM typical voicing with pro audio gear which in practice leads to a sad compromise at best.

 

[takeout]

I have a pair of Diesel 1x15s and swapped in some Faitals recently, with fantastic results.