Eminence Legend BP102 speakers 10"

[billfitzmaurice]

I have a pair of BP102's combined w/an Alpha 6 in a 5cu.ft. cab. As suggested by one of the experts who post here quite a bit, I low-passed the 102's second-order @700Hz, and high passed the Alpha third-order @400Hz.

Overlapping bandwidths is seldom a good idea.

 

[Matthijs]

Is n't there a drop in efficiency for the bp102 somewhere between 400 and 800 hz? and the alpha drops of slightly below 1k. Maybe he was trying to compensate for this. Wouldn't that work?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Is n't there a drop in efficiency for the bp102 somewhere between 400 and 800 hz? and the alpha drops of slightly below 1k. Maybe he was trying to compensate for this. Wouldn't that work?

Overlapping the bandwidths would address that issue, but potentially at the cost of other response anomalies that could negate any gains made and more.

 

[Matthijs]

thanks Bill, I was just curious.

Anyway, to the OP: If you want a extra low voiced 8*10 to add to a mid voiced 8*10. Why not one deltalite equiped 8*10 that will do both, will be louder and leaves some room in the van?

 

[Ferret]

I just put 4 10" legends in an 810 cabinet and also run a 15. I forgot during a set to turn on the 15 so the 810 was doing the work and I have to say, I was amazed at how the legends sounded. It was the first time I did not run the full system and though by accident I would now do it again purposely. LOVE THEM and would recommend to anyone.

 

[kraigo]

Those are cool cabs. I'm a big fan of rack width cabs. What did you do for a crossover?

KO

You really need to add a dedicated mid driver to the BP102's. No amount of EQ-ing will bring out the upper mids and highs that simply do not exist with the BP102's on their own. No way, no how. Any speaker that can handle the lows well (and the BP102's do very well) will not do very well with upper mids and highs. That doesn't mean you can't EQ in some mid content to your liking...it only means you don't like upper mids and highs, because they are NOT there with that speaker.

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[Sundogue]

Those are cool cabs. I'm a big fan of rack width cabs. What did you do for a crossover?

KO

I use a Carvin BX1200 that has full bi-amping capabilities, including an active crossover.

I've had the crossover set anywhere from 500Hz to 800Hz, with very little difference in the sound within that range. Big differences outside that range though.

While the BP102's are supposed to go up to 3kHz on paper, they really nose dive after 500Hz and offer very little that is noticeable in the upper mids and no highs really either. Thus they need to be paired with a dedicated mid driver.

While I acknowledge those who may not care for upper mids/highs much, you can't simply EQ in what doesn't exist in the first place...and the BP102's just don't handle anything much above 500 Hz very well. But that is to be expected with tens that can handle the low end like these do.

I would feel that an internal crossover that could do either 500Hz or 800Hz would be sufficient given my experimentation with my crossover points (spec'd out or theoretical output notwithstanding). I really cannot hear much of a difference (if any) anywhere in that range while sweeping through that range. Just my opinion.

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

Thank you to every one for your input. Other than an 8x10, I'm also considering a Low Down Sound (LDS) 15/15/6/6.

Anyway, to the OP: If you want a extra low voiced 8*10 to add to a mid voiced 8*10. Why not one deltalite equiped 8*10 that will do both, will be louder and leaves some room in the van?

I like this suggestion, but the problem is that I don't know where to buy Eminence Deltalite 2510 speakers. The Deltalite II 2510s are easy to find, but they are a different animal with not as much low end judging by the specs. Any ideas out there?

 

[Bmorefoozler]

Maybe an 8x10 with 8 BP102's and a pair of Alphalite CBMR's would suit you for what you are looking for. Like Sundogue says, x-over somewhere between 5-800.

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

Maybe an 8x10 with 8 BP102's and a pair of Alphalite CBMR's would suit you for what you are looking for. Like Sundogue says, x-over somewhere between 5-800.

I like the idea, but where does one find a cab that fits 8 10" speakers and 2 6" speakers?

 

[greenboy]

Maybe an 8x10 with 8 BP102's and a pair of Alphalite CBMR's would suit you for what you are looking for. Like Sundogue says, x-over somewhere between 5-800.

Or for the bottom one could just use 2 woofers that have greater potential, and in the end have a lighter cab with better off-axis performance.

As for the CBMR, man, those are a last resort best saved for problem retrofitting, in my estimation. The closed basket speakers just sound like azz.

 

[Sundogue]

Or for the bottom one could just use 2 woofers that have greater potential, and in the end have a lighter cab with better off-axis performance.

As for the CBMR, man, those are a last resort best saved for problem retrofitting, in my estimation. The closed basket speakers just sound like azz.

I agree. I just had the BP102's lying around for quite a while. If I were to build one from scratch and buy new speakers, either the 3012LF and 3015LF would far surpass the BP102's for low end output.

But given that I had the BP102 speakers already and only had to change the baffle and add a mid compartment to the existing cabs I had already built for other speakers, the BP102's 6.2mm xmax isn't too shabby for a 10" speaker. The refit of my existing cabs to the BP102's with a dedicated mid probably cost me all of $25 tops.

Two BP102's are roughly the same cost as one 3015LF. If you are going to buy new speakers and design a cab for them the new LF neos are a no-brainer.

 

[bgavin]

either the 3012LF and 3015LF would far surpass the BP102's for low end output.

The BP102 F3 is far lower than either 3012LF or 3015LF. This is big advantage to the BP102.
The LAB12 is the only other Eminence driver that goes below 31 Hz (F3 = 24 Hz) in a modest box less than 4 cubic feet.

3012LF is a 50+ Hz for F3, compared to 31 Hz for BP102.
3012LF has an F3 around 44 Hz.
Both make significantly more noise than BP102, but neither goes down as low.

 

[Growly Lytes]

4 bp102's can produce more thunder than you could ever need. You will not need to boost low end to get a big warm tone. I loved my LDS legend loaded 410. It was a BEAST of a cabinet. I always had my amp set flat. It sounded beautiful. The person I sold it to thinks so, as well.

Thunder , you got that right !
Thats the only way i can explain how these speakers sound...
Mind Freakin Thunder....
Pro , Bassy , Undestructable Throw whatever you like at`em & they will laugh at ya !! I cant get enough of the Low-end Clarity & Power. I add mids to taste & have no tweets ? Im very suprised with the end result & just Gotta say`I Love`em
BTW- These are DIY cabs & not Laney.
Picture 028.jpg

 

[Sundogue]

The BP102 F3 is far lower than either 3012LF or 3015LF. This is big advantage to the BP102.
The LAB12 is the only other Eminence driver that goes below 31 Hz (F3 = 24 Hz) in a modest box less than 4 cubic feet.

3012LF is a 50+ Hz for F3, compared to 31 Hz for BP102.
3012LF has an F3 around 44 Hz.
Both make significantly more noise than BP102, but neither goes down as low.

Low end output at what volume I guess is my point here. I've got 4 of them and it takes a serious amount of power to get volume in the low end. And that also takes two cabinets at 47lbs. each along with two mid drivers to fill out the range.

Of course it is all about trade-offs. But I'd rather have one 15/6 fEarful than my two 210/6 cabs. Then again, I'm perfectly happy with my cabs as they cost me almost nothing in addition to what I already had.

 

[greenboy]

Low end output at what volume I guess is my point here. I've got 4 of them and it takes a serious amount of power to get volume in the low end. And that also takes two cabinets at 47lbs. each along with two mid drivers to fill out the range.

Of course it is all about trade-offs. But I'd rather have one 15/6 fEarful than my two 210/6 cabs. Then again, I'm perfectly happy with my cabs as they cost me almost nothing in addition to what I already had.

Anyway, I was kinda responding to the idea that doing an 810 with the BP102 and some mid drivers was cost effective for the level of performance you could exact from it.

The Acme woofer from all signs is an OEM design taken from the BP102 and I find that a fEarful 12/6 at 15 pounds lighter than the B210 is a lot louder in all the right places. I jst can't imagine why someone would want to do an 810 around the things unless they were trying to replace the ship-anchor Basson in the marketplace ; }

 

[bgavin]

Low end output at what volume I guess is my point here. I've got 4 of them and it takes a serious amount of power to get volume in the low end. And that also takes two cabinets at 47lbs. each along with two mid drivers to fill out the range.

Of course it is all about trade-offs. But I'd rather have one 15/6 fEarful than my two 210/6 cabs. Then again, I'm perfectly happy with my cabs as they cost me almost nothing in addition to what I already had.

The same argument applies to the various Acme cabs.
As always, it depends on whether you need 31 Hz or not.

Four BP102 = One 3015LF for Vd.
Total air moved is a wash, but the operating band is higher with 3015LF.
The fEarful and similar direct radiator designs are the current choice for SPL per volt in a compact box.

IMO, one 6" is insufficient for one 3015LF.
Two parallel Delta Pro 8B are a closer SPL and power match, still 8 ohms.
60v is the upper limit for both 3015LF and Delta Pro 8B.
The 8B are a LOT heavier than a 6" driver. This is negated by installing them in a separate cab.

For my own needs, I play both SR5-HH and keys/synths.
The keyboard produces FAR stronger signal at 31 Hz than does the Stingray, so I have use for the BP102.

However, I play tiny eateries and clubs where I want full-range fidelity instead loudness.
Should I be invited to play outdoors without PA support, it will certainly be with multiple bass horns and bi-amped tops.

What you play determines what you play with.

 

[73jbass]

I have a DR Bass 410 cab that has 102's in it,and I have yet to gig with the cab. Good low end,nothing else.

 

[Growly Lytes]

Low-end is where its at.I dont hear much about people` bassists wanting more top-end ? If a speaker can do nice lows its what i want.
The 102 needs power to Growl so get as much as you can.I bought a 3400watt poweramp that runs them nicely.

 

[kraigo]

It looks like Sundogue answered my question: I have an old DIY Len Moskowitz design cab. I burned up the original woofer a long time ago and the woofer is no longer available. I had tossed a Dayton eight ohm 10" speaker in there just to have the cab usable again.

The BP102 is attractive because it does a good low end and is available in four ohms, like the original speaker. The existing crossover is at 800 Hz with 24 db/octave. 1.6 ft^ cab tuned to 31 Hz. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Again, I just need to have the cab working - it does see use. It looks like a good fit for the BP102-4. Any reason I shouldn't pick one up to drop into the cab? It certainly can't be any worse than the Parts Express eight ohm I already have in there.

KO