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Double Bass End Pin resonance question

#41
I totally replaced my metal endpin assembly for the Onyx full ebony one pictured above. Made a huge difference. It really darkened and made the bass more thuddy (granted, my instrument is already a cannon and very dark). Before then when I still had the metal endpin, I purchased a walnut endpin from Ben Bastin, and it made a significant difference in tone. It made the sound duller and less articulate. At first, I was concerned, but then I stopped using the straight endpin altogether and used one of those angled ones from NewHarmony. I replaced the carbon fiber rod with an oak dowel I got from Home Depot and cut it down with nothing sticking out inside the instrument. It really improved the tone, and I really liked the way it made my bass sound. Unfortunately I stopped using that because I went back to the straight pin, and to recreate that feeling of tone I got that full ebony endpin. It's not really sold anywhere unless you ask for it specifically (another story for another time). It did help, though it has some drawbacks that were easily fixable.
 
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#42
Povl Carstensen said:
Yes. But after reading a bit in "DPA University", where they quite strongly recommend considering omni for amplifiction (but ofcourse placed closer to the source), I think I will try it out. My Countryman Omnimax 2 mic is also available in omni configuration (actually the omni was missing from their site for some time). So I can try it out, and at least I will have a omni to use for some recording purpose or otherwise. But now perhaps we should try to end this serious derailment of the thread I have caused!
Directional vs. Omnidirectional Microphones
(Quote: "As a general rule it can be said that if we place a cardioid at a distance of 17 cm to the source, then an omni placed at 10 cm gives the same ratio of direct and indirect sound as the cardioid.")
Click to expand...

For gentle lifting of orchestra strings it works, but professional bowed playing has way hotter output than pizz and leakage is ok to a point if it sounds good.
 
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#43
Here's something to chew on, when you feel like tinkering more than practicing (please open the attached PDF). The attached descriptions are nominally about 'cello endpins (regarding diameter, etc.) but the metal combinations and descriptions are equally relevant for us.

I've personally tried a few of these combinations, with help from "Online Metals" and West System epoxy (for the "metal within another metal tube" options) Invalid Link Removed

This info was from a website that has gone silent for a few years, called "French 'Cello Bow" that sold all of these end pin combinations for 'cello. They don't really sell for double bass (or didn't when I called). So, I did some tinkering on my own, with this as a guide.

I found that the attached chart is pretty interesting and exhaustive. Forgive the crudity; it is scanned from a printout I made from their old website (the site has been down for awhile).

I've personally found the descriptions apt. I appreciated the visual reference of the overview grid. Ponder, enjoy, and experiment, as you see fit...

I currently swap between solid steel (regular, medium carbon steel) and solid titanium, depending on where I'm playing, what bow I'm using, and the music I'm playing.
 

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#45
I've heard that the wood pins can be great!

As someone who is freakishly tall and generally plays standing, I end up with about 14" of pin sticking out of the bass. I haven't yet figured out how to get a wood pin to manage that length without flexing, or without being really, really thick...

Maybe a metal stud that goes into the socket, embedded into the wood? Right now, for me, I just need to practice more...:-)
 
#50
On my Engelhardt, I recently switched out the stock metal pin for a 1/2" timbale stick with no taper, but left the stock metal plug in place. I asked my guitar partner in a duo I play in at the last rehearsal if he noticed a difference at the end. He said yes but wasn't able to qualify it. I'm not sure there is a difference, except it is easier to work with and doesn't rattle at all.
 
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#51
Eric Swanson said:
Here's something to chew on, when you feel like tinkering more than practicing (please open the attached PDF). The attached descriptions are nominally about 'cello endpins (regarding diameter, etc.) but the metal combinations and descriptions are equally relevant for us.

I've personally tried a few of these combinations, with help from "Online Metals" and West System epoxy (for the "metal within another metal tube" options) Invalid Link Removed

This info was from a website that has gone silent for a few years, called "French 'Cello Bow" that sold all of these end pin combinations for 'cello. They don't really sell for double bass (or didn't when I called). So, I did some tinkering on my own, with this as a guide.

I found that the attached chart is pretty interesting and exhaustive. Forgive the crudity; it is scanned from a printout I made from their old website (the site has been down for awhile).

I've personally found the descriptions apt. I appreciated the visual reference of the overview grid. Ponder, enjoy, and experiment, as you see fit...

I currently swap between solid steel (regular, medium carbon steel) and solid titanium, depending on where I'm playing, what bow I'm using, and the music I'm playing.
Click to expand...

Big oof when did this come out because I would have loved this a few years ago but I still love it now. You are the real MVP, my dude.
 
#52
Eric Swanson said:
I've heard that the wood pins can be great!

As someone who is freakishly tall and generally plays standing, I end up with about 14" of pin sticking out of the bass. I haven't yet figured out how to get a wood pin to manage that length without flexing, or without being really, really thick...

Maybe a metal stud that goes into the socket, embedded into the wood? Right now, for me, I just need to practice more...:)
Click to expand...

I'm also rather tall and use a 14" endpin. Soon after I got my first upright, I actually had to add a 4" turned wood piece to the bottom of the original 8mm steel pin. With only about 1.5" inside the bass while playing standing up it has some flex but fortunately hasn't failed me in about 80 shows.

Still, I've been meaning to make a new more substantial wooden endpin and finally got around to doing it this week. The wood is Brazilian Walnut (AKA Ipe) which has Janka hardness rating higher than ebony. The shaft that goes into the bass is a 3/8 x 6" Grade 8 course thread machine bolt with the hex head cut off.

If you've ever worked with or even picked up a piece of Ipe, it's insanely dense, heavy and feels as strong as steel.

This post is fairly thick at about 1" in diameter and I probably could have made it a bit thinner and still had no flex. Even at 14" tall with the higher commercial grade steel shaft drilled into it, there is zero flex.

I made a second one that's 4" for when I sit on a stool at home or rehearsal.

6B600A08-D118-488D-A632-EFCA9202A74B.jpeg
 
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#54
neilG said:
What is the piece with the t-nut for?
Click to expand...

That's attached directly to a rubber stopper. There's a matching t-nut on the top of the 4" post so it can unscrewed and the rubber stopper attached to the same shaft which effectively drops the bass down 3".

I had a bunch of extra parts so I just made it for the rare occasion I might be sitting in a lower chair or if I wanted to transport the bass without the post sticking out of the bottom of the gig bag.
 
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#55
I DO know Ipe; thank you for the pictures and ingenuity!

You've shown the best of Talkbass; a question asked and answered! Thank you!


neckdive said:
I'm also rather tall and use a 14" endpin. Soon after I got my first upright, I actually had to add a 4" turned wood piece to the bottom of the original 8mm steel pin. With only about 1.5" inside the bass while playing standing up it has some flex but fortunately hasn't failed me in about 80 shows.

Still, I've been meaning to make a new more substantial wooden endpin and finally got around to doing it this week. The wood is Brazilian Walnut (AKA Ipe) which has Janka hardness rating higher than ebony. The shaft that goes into the bass is a 3/8 x 6" Grade 8 course thread machine bolt with the hex head cut off.

If you've ever worked with or even picked up a piece of Ipe, it's insanely dense, heavy and feels as strong as steel.

This post is fairly thick at about 1" in diameter and I probably could have made it a bit thinner and still had no flex. Even at 14" tall with the higher commercial grade steel shaft drilled into it, there is zero flex.

I made a second one that's 4" for when I sit on a stool at home or rehearsal.

View attachment 3409704
Click to expand...
 
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#56
neckdive said:
That's attached directly to a rubber stopper. There's a matching t-nut on the top of the 4" post so it can unscrewed and the rubber stopper attached to the same shaft which effectively drops the bass down 3".

I had a bunch of extra parts so I just made it for the rare occasion I might be sitting in a lower chair or if I wanted to transport the bass without the post sticking out of the bottom of the gig bag.
Click to expand...
Have you thought about fusing a steel rod with a sharpened tip onto the bottom, too, for "digging in" to the floor (when you can get away with it)?
 
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