Engineers and Precision Basses. The truth comes out.

[Seth Shonefeld]

Last week, I had a session with a very seasoned sound engineer. I’ve known him a long time and he always digs the tone of my basses… until now.

I normally play something with 2 pickups, like a jazz or jazz-adjacent bass. They’re versatile and I like the tone. This time, I decided to bring my righteous Olinto Precision bass, since we all know sound engineers prefer to mix a P, right? Ummm… not exactly.

We had a good session. When it was done the sound engineer and I were talking and I asked him how much he was digging that beautiful bass. His response was very ‘meh’. He then proceeded to go into a deep dive about frequencies & such that I didn’t quite understand. But in the end, he definitely preferred something with a bit more ‘zing’ in the higher frequencies.

So I asked him, “what about all the stories we hear about some pro bassist who went to the studio with his fancy boutique bass and the engineer had him play the whole session on the in-house p-bass… and the rest is history?”

He laughed and said, “That’s not because the p-bass is better. It’s because the engineer is lazy and doesn’t want to waste time dialing in a new bass tone.”

That was a humbling and enlightening response. And also more proof that the only person bass tone matters to is the bassist.



Disclaimer- Yes, I recognize this is only one guy’s opinion. But it’s a pretty good one.

It's true in lots of areas of expertise. Just because someone is an expert doesn't mean they want to do the work.

 

[cnltb]

Last week, I had a session with a very seasoned sound engineer. I’ve known him a long time and he always digs the tone of my basses… until now.

I normally play something with 2 pickups, like a jazz or jazz-adjacent bass. They’re versatile and I like the tone. This time, I decided to bring my righteous Olinto Precision bass, since we all know sound engineers prefer to mix a P, right? Ummm… not exactly.

We had a good session. When it was done the sound engineer and I were talking and I asked him how much he was digging that beautiful bass. His response was very ‘meh’. He then proceeded to go into a deep dive about frequencies & such that I didn’t quite understand. But in the end, he definitely preferred something with a bit more ‘zing’ in the higher frequencies.

So I asked him, “what about all the stories we hear about some pro bassist who went to the studio with his fancy boutique bass and the engineer had him play the whole session on the in-house p-bass… and the rest is history?”

He laughed and said, “That’s not because the p-bass is better. It’s because the engineer is lazy and doesn’t want to waste time dialing in a new bass tone.”

That was a humbling and enlightening response. And also more proof that the only person bass tone matters to is the bassist.



Disclaimer- Yes, I recognize this is only one guy’s opinion. But it’s a pretty good one.

Yes; Workflow and efficient use of time are both a thing. ;-)

 

[dougfr67]

Dude the sentence started with I. You don't have to add the other stuff, it is redundant.

Yes, started with 'I' so it's grammatically correct. But the following sentences sounded much more like statements rather than opinions.

Not to mention the second part: 'I wish no other style of bass was made because it got in the way of me getting to a P.'

Is it humor or serious? Why would other basses be in your way if you want to get a P?

 

[HolmeBass]

I'm glad they found a way to balance that.




Link Removed

Damn! Those are some big...













Hair-dos!

 

[HolmeBass]

So the sound engineer said with other basses, you have to fiddle with it and "dial in a NEW bass tone" (emphasis added)

But with a Pbass you don't have to spend time doing this because it's implied here that it already works. Already sounds good.

I don't get it. What's wrong with that? It seems to me that he proved the Pbass point. Am I misunderstanding what you're saying or what the sound engineer was saying? My apologies if I am but that's what I took away from it.

The sound engineer said he preferred the sound of other basses to that of a P bass.

So if that was the “P bass point” you referred to, yes he proved it.

Talk about selective reading and cherry picking!

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Yes, started with 'I' so it's grammatically correct. But the following sentences sounded much more like statements rather than opinions.

Not to mention the second part: 'I wish no other style of bass was made because it got in the way of me getting to a P.'

Is it humor or serious? Why would other basses be in your way if you want to get a P?

Listen. I respect that other people play and make great music with Jazz basses. I am talking about myself. For anything I personally have ever wanted to do on a bass guitar, the P bass is perfect. The entire statement is subjective. This is all my opinion. Okay?

 

[Rib 13]

It won't sound like a P-bass because it's a Jazz bass!

Thats true for most passive Jazzes, especially that the pickups are (1) generally too thin sounding and (2) like to add varying degrees of noise or buzz when soloed

Active Jazzes can be a different animal: On my Sire V7, the pickups dont buzz when soloed and the onboard preamp range and flexibility allows the V7 to do a very decent and full P facsimile when the neck pickup is soloed. Its not my first choice for P-tone - I own other basses - but if its the only bass someone has, its nice to know it can get in the ballpark if required on a project

 

[HolmeBass]

Time is money and if you bring in a P bass where the "lazy" engineer just has to set a level and you're good to go versus bringing you're favorite bass of the month that is a relative unknown and requires more work to dial in. Who is going to get the call next time?

The better bassist will get the next call. Every time.

 

[Texican]

After reading through the first two pages, I’m once again astounded at how Talkbass doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a studio musician being hired to support an artist, vs an artist that happens to play the bass. And of course, people have to chime in with the fact that Jaco, Geddy, and Claypool didn’t play a fretted P bass in the studio, and that it would have been a travesty if the engineer had forced them to. Well of course that’s true! But those are artists with very unique tones, and not every artist wants someone to make their track sound like a Rush or Primus song. If you’re footing the bill, then the engineers should take as much time as required to dial in your exotic eight string fretless wizard bass. And if he takes too much time and money to do it, you fire him and find a new engineer.

Likewise, if someone else is footing the bill and you’re hired to support them, you don’t get to spend all their money and time ensuring that your bass tone has enough “zing” to cut through the mix… Especially when that’s probably not what they want to begin with. You’re probably going to end up getting fired and replaced, and rightfully so in that scenario.

 

[Texican]

“Better” in what regard though? A “better musician” that has the taste and discretion to not showcase all of their chops, but rather serve the song?

Or the “better bassist” that can shred faster and louder than anyone, and will have a fan base of nothing but other bass players lining up to hear him shred?

There are scenarios where either one of those or the other would be more preferable. But in both scenarios, the engineer would still prefer that you not be a pain in his ass lol.

 

[dougfr67]

Listen. I respect that other people play and make great music with Jazz basses. I am talking about myself. For anything I personally have ever wanted to do on a bass guitar, the P bass is perfect. The entire statement is subjective. This is all my opinion. Okay?

Sure, that's why it's correct with 'to me' or 'in my opinion'.

Isn't a huge difference between saying that XY is an A hole, or XY in my opinion is an A hole?

 

[dougfr67]

After reading through the first two pages, I’m once again astounded at how Talkbass doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a studio musician being hired to support an artist, vs an artist that happens to play the bass.

Absolutely. Being an artist and being a working (session) musician are two different things. Night and day.

 

[HolmeBass]

Wouldn't the lazy engineer theory apply to him too? Couldn't he just "dial in" a sound for your bass?

The issue is that you can’t dial in what isn’t there to begin with, in terms of EQ.

So you can’t dial in much “zing”, if any, from a P bass with flats.

 

[logdrum]

If drummers tuned their drums better, then engineers can spare a minute to dial an electric bass tone, P or not. And yeah there are engineers that will dial in a Pbass with flats and foam mute. Thru compressor, some EQ

Most of the precious studio time is wasted on drummers , who after 1 hour of getting the sound will move the snare and hi-hat or change the ride forcing the engineer to get a good sound again

 

[dougfr67]

The issue is that you can’t dial in what isn’t there to begin with, in terms of EQ.

So you can’t dial in much “zing”, if any, from a P bass with flats.

See? There's a lot of misunderstanding in recording here in TB. There's a lot of informative and knowledgeable people here, but sometimes it's hard for the inexperienced to filter who to listen to.

 

[HolmeBass]

I think it also comes down to P basses and Jazz basses are the most common basses around. Every engineer has had experience with them and they know what to do with them to make them sound great. When you show up with your $6000 custom bass it scares the crap out of some sound guys.

Even though 3/4s of those $6k custom basses are really just J’s with a nice pre-amp in them?

In my experience this is not the case.

 

[dougfr67]

If drummers tuned their drums better, then engineers can spare a minute to dial an electric bass tone, P or not. And yeah there are engineers that will dial in a Pbass with flats and foam mute. Thru compressor, some EQ

Most of the precious studio time is wasted on drummers , who after 1 hour of getting the sound will move the snare and hi-hat or change the ride forcing the engineer to get a good sound again

In everyday cases it's true but some people just misunderstand the whole recording session and think that it's the same with huge productions too.

E.g. On some big recordings sometimes they spend a whole day just to dial in and tune the snare.
I don't think on those big records they just told the bassist to throw away whatever they had and use a P.

 

[LBS-bass]

He laughed and said, “That’s not because the p-bass is better. It’s because the engineer is lazy and doesn’t want to waste time dialing in a new bass tone.”

Yep. Most people are going to want to work with a known quantity simply because they already know how to make it work OK. This is why I always bring my old SM-58 to shows, even though I have a very high-end vocal mic I can use. That high-end mic sounds a lot better, but engineers sneer at it because it's extra work for them.

 

[HolmeBass]

After reading through the first two pages, I’m once again astounded at how Talkbass doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a studio musician being hired to support an artist, vs an artist that happens to play the bass. And of course, people have to chime in with the fact that Jaco, Geddy, and Claypool didn’t play a fretted P bass in the studio, and that it would have been a travesty if the engineer had forced them to. Well of course that’s true! But those are artists with very unique tones, and not every artist wants someone to make their track sound like a Rush or Primus song. If you’re footing the bill, then the engineers should take as much time as required to dial in your exotic eight string fretless wizard bass. And if he takes too much time and money to do it, you fire him and find a new engineer.

Likewise, if someone else is footing the bill and you’re hired to support them, you don’t get to spend all their money and time ensuring that your bass tone has enough “zing” to cut through the mix… Especially when that’s probably not what they want to begin with. You’re probably going to end up getting fired and replaced, and rightfully so in that scenario.

How long do you think it actually takes to turn down the high frequency shelving knob during mix-down?

The time difference we’re talking about is on the order of minutes. Maybe 15 extra minutes at most - like with a coffee break - to get a full-range bass track to sound like a muffled thud.

But if the mix engineer wants more high end in the bass and it isn’t there on the recorded bass track, they might need to re-record the track, and that will indeed take more time and added expense.

 

[Cave Puppy]

Yep. Most people are going to want to work with a known quantity simply because they already know how to make it work OK. This is why I always bring my old SM-58 to shows, even though I have a very high-end vocal mic I can use. That high-end mic sounds a lot better, but engineers sneer at it because it's extra work for them.

You need phantom power? Where is that switch again?