Entwistle PBXN Neodymium P pickup?

[NoiseNinja]

So I have some issues with huge fluctuating tone changes through my setup and I narrowed the issue down to that the DiMarzio Model P P pickup that I have installed in my main bass somehow being faulty (the only pickup installed in this bass).

I love the tone I got from the Model P before this issue started to appear though, but as it seems like all the European dealers (I live in Europe) doesn't have any in stock currently (Thomann lists 7-9 weeks waiting time), I decided I might as well take a shot at the super cheap Entwistle PBXN Neodymium P pickup in the meanwhile.

What little information I could find on the Entwhistle PBXN on the internet from users seems very promising though, huge output, aggressive yet defined tone, and generally people seems very positively surprised and love it (not that many people to base that generalization on though . But at least that seemed to be the unanimous consensus of the few reviews from different people I was able to find), but I am curious on more info from people who have tried this pickup out in person, and would be thrilled if anyone could perhaps even provide some actual audio samples of it.

How does this pickup for instance compare to the DiMarzio Model P output and tone wise?

For example:

Higher or lower output, brighter or darker, more or less bass, low mids, mids, high mids, and treble, more or less aggressive, more or less articulate and defined, e.t.c, than the Model P, and what about when it comes to punch, grunt, bite and clarity?

Also any pickups that the Entwhistle PBXN has a closer resemblance to tone wise?

In which case what are the similarities and what are the differences?

Anything really that will give me at least a somewhat better idea of what to expect is welcome.

 

[kodiakblair]

@NoiseNinja

Here's a very short A/B against Duncan QP's. Bass was an alder body Peavey Zodiac DE Scorpio. Strings are Rotosound Nexus. It's tone on full then rolled back. Afraid the Zodiac is a PJ bass so both pickups are on full for each clip.

EQ was flat going in and no chances to settings between hitting the red button. Same pickup heights too.

 

[NoiseNinja]

@NoiseNinja

Here's a very short A/B against Duncan QP's. Bass was an alder body Peavey Zodiac DE Scorpio. Strings are Rotosound Nexus. It's tone on full then rolled back. Afraid the Zodiac is a PJ bass so both pickups are on full for each clip.

EQ was flat going in and no chances to settings between hitting the red button. Same pickup heights too.

Thanks, appreciate it a lot.

Even if a full on P + J in parallel that is clipping is not exactly ideal to get any kind of realistic impression of how the P would sound on it's own.

But for what it is it seems like it's pretty snarly with the tone full up, quite probably a good deal more snarly and bitey than the Model P, since the Quarter Pounder pickups got a lot of that and this seems to be even more so, but less full sounding than the Model P, maybe lacking a bit in the low mids department for my taste, though it definitely sounds fuller than the Quarter Pounders and considerably less mids scooped as well, however still not nearly as mids focused as the Model P.

Also to me it sounds like there might be an excess of really low low end, which I assume is what have the main responsibility for the clipping, and which I would think could potentially expose an issue, but that might just be the recording fooling me and might not be the actual case.

But, as said, since this recording was all based on the P + J full on in parallel it is really hard to conclude anything about how the P would sound on it's own, for one I should in all likelihood expect quite a bit more mid frequency content and a bit fuller sounding tone as well, which in my book would be a good thing and which might just make it match my preferences a lot closer after all.

Are you able to confirm this assumption, or have anything to add about how the P sound on it's own that might make me wiser?

 

[kodiakblair]

Are you able to confirm this assumption, or have anything to add about how the P sound on it's own that might make me wiser?

I'll dig the bass out of the cupboard tomorrow and refresh my memory.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I'll dig the bass out of the cupboard tomorrow and refresh my memory.

Thanks a lot for for being willing to go through the trouble for my sake, truly would appreciate it.

Looking forward to your report.

 

[hachi kid]

So I have some issues with huge fluctuating tone changes through my setup and I narrowed the issue down to that the DiMarzio Model P P pickup that I have installed in my main bass somehow being faulty (the only pickup installed in this bass).

I love the tone I got from the Model P before this issue started to appear though, but as it seems like all the European dealers (I live in Europe) doesn't have any in stock currently (Thomann lists 7-9 weeks waiting time), I decided I might as well take a shot at the super cheap Entwistle PBXN Neodymium P pickup in the meanwhile.

What little information I could find on the Entwhistle PBXN on the internet from users seems very promising though, huge output, aggressive yet defined tone, and generally people seems very positively surprised and love it (not that many people to base that generalization on though . But at least that seemed to be the unanimous consensus of the few reviews from different people I was able to find), but I am curious on more info from people who have tried this pickup out in person, and would be thrilled if anyone could perhaps even provide some actual audio samples of it.

How does this pickup for instance compare to the DiMarzio Model P output and tone wise?

For example:

Higher or lower output, brighter or darker, more or less bass, low mids, mids, high mids, and treble, more or less aggressive, more or less articulate and defined, e.t.c, than the Model P, and what about when it comes to punch, grunt, bite and clarity?

Also any pickups that the Entwhistle PBXN has a closer resemblance to tone wise?

In which case what are the similarities and what are the differences?

Anything really that will give me at least a somewhat better idea of what to expect is welcome.

I haven't tried the Entwistle pickup you mentioned, nor have I even heard of it honestly. That being said, if you're considering another replacement pickup, have you ever considered the DiMarzio DP146 or that new Relentless pickup? They're effectively a Dimarzio Model P with a little bit more output and midrange. I'm not much of a Billy Sheehan fan anymore for personal reasons, but I still use the DP146 in two of my basses. One's a Warmoth i put together years ago as my own take on the Yamaha Attitude, and the other is in a MIM P-Bass that I also put an Noll 4-band pre-amp in and strung up with flats. It surprisingly does any sort of sound I'm looking for.

If you're open to other pickups, check out the Sheehan sig pickups. They're voiced really well, and a transparent pre-amp definitely compliments them.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I haven't tried the Entwistle pickup you mentioned, nor have I even heard of it honestly. That being said, if you're considering another replacement pickup, have you ever considered the DiMarzio DP146 or that new Relentless pickup? They're effectively a Dimarzio Model P with a little bit more output and midrange. I'm not much of a Billy Sheehan fan anymore for personal reasons, but I still use the DP146 in two of my basses. One's a Warmoth i put together years ago as my own take on the Yamaha Attitude, and the other is in a MIM P-Bass that I also put an Noll 4-band pre-amp in and strung up with flats. It surprisingly does any sort of sound I'm looking for.

If you're open to other pickups, check out the Sheehan sig pickups. They're voiced really well, and a transparent pre-amp definitely compliments them.

The DP146 seems to have gone out of production, at least it is not listed on DiMarzio's homepage anymore, and as far as I remember, though I might be wrong, it used to figure as having slightly less mids than the Model P, according to the tone charge.

As far as the Relentless P pickup goes it does indeed seem to be an upgraded and slightly beefed up version of the Model P, but Thomann lists it as not being available until in several months, though I have seriously pondered on getting it when they have in it stock.

In any case my point with trying out the Entwhistle was that since it is so cheap I wouldn't loose much by taking a shot at it, while I wait for the Model P to be back in stock, so spending almost double the money of a Model P on the Relentless P pickup, even if it were available for purchase, would kind of defeat that purpose.

However now I am pondering if I should just drop my plans of buying a new pickup all together and instead have the Mikro routed out where the P pickup cavity is now for the original MB-IV pickup in my Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic Bass, which I absolutely love the tone of (many of the same qualities as the Model P, fairly hot (at least as high output), somewhat aggressive, very full and quite mids focused tone, but somewhat more articulated and clear sounding), and which is an about big soapbar sized (slightly more narrow than the 2 P pickup halfs together but almost exactly as long as the current cavities if you include the screw "ears" of the P, and seems to fit with the height of the cavity too, including foam) full humbucker, but with it's quite big double pole pieces arranged like a reverse P pickup (meaning that while it's 2 series connected coils are actually wound the full length of the pickup it only got pole pieces above one half of each coil, arranged opposite to each other, like a reverse P pickup), and I think ceramic bar magnets underneath (though I wasn't able to find information about the magnet type used in this specific pickup, but testing by approaching the pole pieces with a piece of iron it seems to have as strong a magnetic pull as the Model P at least).

This one :

 

[NoiseNinja]

*) Still curious about the Entwhistle pickup though, and the decision isn't final yet either. (*

 

[hachi kid]

The DP146 seems to have gone out of production, at least it is not listed on DiMarzio's homepage anymore, and as far as I remember, though I might be wrong, it used to figure as having slightly less mids than the Model P, according to the tone charge.

As far as the Relentless P pickup goes it does indeed seem to be an upgraded and slightly beefed up version of the Model P, but Thomann lists it as not being available until in several months, though I have seriously pondered on getting it when they have in it stock.

In any case my point with trying out the Entwhistle was that since it is so cheap I wouldn't loose much by taking a shot at it, while I wait for the Model P to be back in stock, so spending almost double the money of a Model P on the Relentless P pickup, even if it were available for purchase, would kind of defeat that purpose.

However now I am pondering if I should just drop my plans of buying a new pickup all together and instead have the Mikro routed out where the P pickup cavity is now for the original MB-IV pickup in my Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic Bass, which I absolutely love the tone of (many of the same qualities as the Model P, fairly hot (at least as high output), somewhat aggressive, very full and quite mids focused tone, but somewhat more articulated and clear sounding), and which is an about big soapbar sized (slightly more narrow than the 2 P pickup halfs together but almost exactly as long as the current cavities if you include the screw "ears" of the P, and seems to fit with the height of the cavity too, including foam) full humbucker, but with it's quite big double pole pieces arranged like a reverse P pickup (meaning that while it's 2 series connected coils are actually wound the full length of the pickup it only got pole pieces above one half of each coil, arranged opposite to each other, like a reverse P pickup), and I think ceramic bar magnets underneath (though I wasn't able to find information about the magnet type used in this specific pickup, but testing by approaching the pole pieces with a piece of iron it seems to have as strong a magnetic pull as the Model P at least).

This one :
View attachment 4146026

I found the old page on the wayback machine that details the DP146. They show it as having more midrange than the Model P, plus used one of these for about 11 years at this point, I can definitely speak to the strong midrange bite of the pickup. If you're interested, here's the link: Standard Bass | DiMarzio

I've found the pickups on reverb, though
DP146: DiMarzio Will Power Bass Middle Pick-up Black DP 146 | Mike's Music Shop (banjomikez) | Reverb

Model P: DiMarzio DiMarzio Model P Bass Pick-up Black DP 122 | Mike's Music Shop (banjomikez) | Reverb

I didn't realize Dimarzio stopped production on the DP146, though! I guess that would make sense as Billy is using different products now. As far as getting your bass routed out? pickup + routing costs like the more expensive option than just spending a little more on a p-pickup, plus you wouldn't have to scavenge an Aria bass. That being said, I've got no experience with that soapbar type pickup, so it could just have that certain "thing" you're looking for in a pickup. But, I'm not here to try and convince you one way or another. I'm just throwing out alternate options for you.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I found the old page on the wayback machine that details the DP146. They show it as having more midrange than the Model P, plus used one of these for about 11 years at this point, I can definitely speak to the strong midrange bite of the pickup. If you're interested, here's the link: Standard Bass | DiMarzio

I've found the pickups on reverb, though
DP146: DiMarzio Will Power Bass Middle Pick-up Black DP 146 | Mike's Music Shop (banjomikez) | Reverb

Model P: DiMarzio DiMarzio Model P Bass Pick-up Black DP 122 | Mike's Music Shop (banjomikez) | Reverb

I didn't realize Dimarzio stopped production on the DP146, though! I guess that would make sense as Billy is using different products now. As far as getting your bass routed out? pickup + routing costs like the more expensive option than just spending a little more on a p-pickup, plus you wouldn't have to scavenge an Aria bass. That being said, I've got no experience with that soapbar type pickup, so it could just have that certain "thing" you're looking for in a pickup. But, I'm not here to try and convince you one way or another. I'm just throwing out alternate options for you.

Seems you were right about the DP146 (seems like it shares the exact same tonal profile of the new Relentless pickup, which I guess does make perfect sense), but the pickup I was talking about would be completely free, at least as long as I don't need it for the bass it sits in currently (which I don't think, at least definitely not until I get the old worn frets leveled and polished up again, which I don't see will happen in any foreseeable future anyway), and I plan to borrow a router and do the routing myself, so that too is completely free of charge, so no matter if I ended up buying a 1$ pickup it would end up still costing me more than totally free, and as said, I really do love the tone of that pickup, and am kind of intrigued by the idea of making this bass a little different as well.

Also that Aria pickup is not a soapbar pickup, I just used that word to give people an approximate idea of it's size, it's more like sort of a crossover between a "regular", I guess somewhat soapbar style (though not the exact same dimensions as the large cover soapbar pickups, slightly bigger, perhaps really closer to double J style pickups), humbucker and a P pickup, I really guess most of all resembling a P in basic construction, except for the different housing obviously and the coils being about double the length of those of a regular P pickup, but slightly more narrow (which of course will make them have a somewhat different inherent character, even if the actual magnetic field that pick up the string vibrations, due to the way the pole pieces are arranged, is much more similar to that of a standard P pickup than that of a traditional humbucker), as I said it actually shares some of the same characteristics as the Model P.

Beside that Reverb shop you link to that sells the pickups i US based, which would mean that I would end up paying just about as much as the pickups costs alone in shipping and import/customs fees/taxes.

I do appreciate you trying to help and your input though.

 

[hachi kid]

Ah, gotcha. That sounds good, then. And yea, I was just using that as shorthand. I realize it's basically a p-pickup configuration in that soapbar size.

 

[kodiakblair]

*) Still curious about the Entwhistle pickup though, and the decision isn't final yet either. (*

Right, I got the bass and it is in dire need of a set up. No real point in going further until that is done.

Might be a couple of days before I find time.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Well, all that commotion for nothing.

Since I really did love the tone of the DiMarzio DP122 Model P pickup before the one I currently have installed in my bass started acting up (I suspect the lead somehow sometimes slightly getting in contact with the pickup poles is the cause for the random tone fluctuations) I decided to do one last attempt at tracking down an online European dealer who had them in stock, and succeeded finding one in Belgium, it was slightly more pricy than standard street price, but I decided to order one anyway.

So all plans about mods on my bass and trying out alternatives to the Model P pickup has been cancelled.

Now I just need to wait for the pickup to arrive and install it, which should be approximately a week from now or so, but a considerably improvement over the estimated 6 weeks + shipping time that Thomann lists.

 

[sunbeast]

Well, all that commotion for nothing.

Since I really did love the tone of the DiMarzio DP122 Model P pickup before the one I currently have installed in my bass started acting up (I suspect the lead somehow sometimes slightly getting in contact with the pickup poles is the cause for the random tone fluctuations) I decided to do one last attempt at tracking down an online European dealer who had them in stock, and succeeded finding one in Belgium, it was slightly more pricy than standard street price, but I decided to order one anyway.

So all plans about mods on my bass and trying out alternatives to the Model P pickup has been cancelled.

Now I just need to wait for the pickup to arrive and install it, which should be approximately a week from now or so, but a considerably improvement over the estimated 6 weeks + shipping time that Thomann lists.

Can you explain the issues you are having with the current pickup? If it works intermittently then it is probably an easy fix