Envelope Filter and OD

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Temezki, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Temezki


    Jul 1, 2012

    I have a little problem with my pedal order. My Envelope Filter is MXR Envelope Filter and the OD is custom made. So if i put my pedals like Amp-Wah-Envelope-Chorus-Fuzz-OD-Comp-Bass
    I can get a nice sounds with the envelope but if I engage the OD I get a sound I don't like. Now I tried an order Amp-Wah-Chorus-Fuzz-OD-Envelope-Comp-Bass with the same settings as in the other order the Envelope doesn't seem to work and I can't get a good sound tweaking the knobs. I would like to use the Envelope with the OD. What is the spot for Envelope Filter in a pedalboard?
    The next band practices are in the weekend and I don't have a car so I can't switch pedal order right now. Would switching the Comp and Envelopes place fix this?

    The pedalboard:
  2. So when you say you, "get nice sounds with the envelope" what pedals are actually on? Any pedal that are off at this point don't matter.

    Then you turn on the OD and the envelope sounds bad. Is your OD adding too much gain, overdriving where your filter's sensitivity is set, slamming the filter open the whole time? Or is it actually dropping the gain so the filter won't open up?

    Then you re-arrange things so the filter is right after the comp, and you say the filter doesn't work anymore. In the first example, was your comp off? Otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

    Here's what I'd do: since the filter works on dynamics, and a comp decreases the dynamic range of the signal, they often don't play well with comp->filter. On the other hand, the resonant peaks a filter can dish out can sometimes create unpleasant volume spikes so filter->comp, to leave full dynamic range going into the filter, but using the comp to tame resonant peak spiking, can work well.

    My order: OD->envelope->fuzz->chorus->wah->comp
    Or: OD->fuzz->envelope->comp->chorus->wah - if you don't run the fuzz too hot, it can work well before the filter. But you'll have to try out a few different things, there is no one right way to do this.

    Another idea: OD->Envelope->fuzz->wah->comp->chorus
  3. RickenBoogie


    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    It really depends on how you use each pedal, and what you expect from them. I always have the compressor 1st in line, right after the tuner, followed by o/d, then my envelope filter and synth fx come next, BUT, I'm not squishing my signal very much with the comp, just a very low ratio, fairly high threshold, and easy on the gain stage. Dirt before filter is a classic effect, but how YOU use that compressor makes all the difference. The only sure way to get everything working for you, is to try every combination until it sounds right to you. Also, consider the "why" factor. Don't have anything in the chain that doesn't absolutely NEED to be there.
  4. Temezki


    Jul 1, 2012
    Thanks for the answers. My Compressor is always on and the Chorus is only off when I use the Fuzz. I think the Compressor might be the problem here it has been on the same setting from the start when i had a 4-string Jackson bass. Now i have a Sandberg 5-string. It's a different beast it the sounds good with the compressor so I didn't bother to try different setting with it. I like the wah in the end of the chain so I won't move that. I have the OD before the Fuzz cause I want to use the Fuzz with the OD and the it is only off when i want to play ''clean'' parts. And I think the Chorus is in the perfect spot for me too. I will try different orders on Saturday this week.
  5. MilkyMcMilkMilk


    Dec 17, 2008
    put the od in front of the filter and it should be good, in my experience anyhow.
  6. Matt Dean

    Matt Dean Supporting Member

    Jan 2, 2007
    SF (North) Bay Area
    I always run Octave>Dirt>Filters>Modulation... never use compression.
  7. rsmith601

    rsmith601 Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    The OD creates harmonics, and when all of that is put through a sweeping filter it makes the filter really come to life. It is clearly the best place for it to be.

    The only major downside is that it is best to trigger an envelope with a clean signal. When you either compress a signal or put it through an OD pedal you are reducing the dynamic range of the signal and, therefore, making the envelope response less dynamic. (yes, we are working on how to address this problem)
  8. Vlad5

    Vlad5 Chronic Knob Twiddling Tone Chaser

    Feb 17, 2011
    New England
    I guess that's why some filters have a triggering input and a side chain loop for dirt, so you can trigger the filter with a clean signal, the signal is sent through the loop (like fuzz/drive), then through the triggered filter (or something like that).

    I believe the Wonderlove (GR2) is set up like this.

    I love the sound of a filter after a fuzz, but hate the peaks that occur. I've been messing with drive effects after fuzz after filter (filter > fuzz > drive) to help compress the signal, but I think a limiter is the way to go after all that mess. Haven't tried it yet though, except on the amp, which works ok.

    Drive into filter sounds good too, so long as it's not compressing too much.
    Basically, what everyone has said already...