Epiphone EB-0 or Hagstrom HB-4?

[Delvina]

I'm a fairly new bassist in an amateur gig band playing a variety of music genres. I own a short-scale Epiphone EB-0 (bought for $230) which I like (especially the color and feel), but I find that it has a muddy tone and there isn't much I can do with the sound.
http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Bass/EB-0.aspx

After doing some research, it appears this is mostly due to its low quality single humbucking pickup and that I could get a much better sound quality by replacing it with a different pickup such as a 'DiMarzio DP120 Model One' (possibly $100) or a 'DiMarzio Will Power Neck DP145' and possibly also replacing the bridge with another such as the 'Hipshot Truetone' bridge (possibly $130). This may be costly but considering the limited selection of short-scale basses, I was thinking of investing into these upgrades until I recently discovered the Hagstrom HB-4 short-scale bass guitar.
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It looks almost exactly like the EB-0 and I imagine that for the price (possibly $500-$600), its sound and quality would be superior. However, I had never heard of Hagstrom before and I haven't found much info about this model. I've only found one store in my area that carries this brand but they don't have the HB-4. I figure I could have them order it but I'm guessing I would have to pay a non-refundable 10% deposit or something and I might not want to purchase it afterwards if I don't like how it feels.

I would really appreciate some advice. Is it worth modifying my Epiphone (which pickup? bridge too?) or should I get the Hagstrom? Or is there a better, similar-looking short-scale available?

 

[Orangeclawhammr]

Do you prefer short scale basses like the EB0? If so, I'd recommend a Squier VM Jaguar SS. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/squier-vintage-modified-jaguar-bass-special-ss-short-scale It doesn't cost too much more than the mods you are considering. I love mine.

If short scale is not mandatory, you have loads of options.

 

[Delvina]

Thanks for the suggestion, Orangeclawhammer.
I've tried playing normal scale basses but they feel too big for my hands and I can't play them fast enough, which is why I'm sticking with a short scale.
The Squier was my 2nd choice when I bought my bass. I liked them both but prefered the look and feel of the Epiphone. The Squier I tried had a very light-colored head, the plate surrounding the knobs was metallic gray and the body was bright orange-red which wasn't as appealing to me. Now that I look up this model, I see several pictures with a black head, black knob plate and a darker cherry red colored body similar to the EB.
I'll consider it if I can somehow obtain the same style but I'm wondering if the Hagstrom is worth the investment.
I'm also considering the Gretsch G5442BDC Electromatic Hollow Body Short Scale Bass.
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[telecopy]

I'm a fairly new bassist in an amateur gig band playing a variety of music genres. I own a short-scale Epiphone EB-0 (bought for $230) which I like (especially the color and feel), but I find that it has a muddy tone and there isn't much I can do with the sound.
http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Bass/EB-0.aspx

After doing some research, it appears this is mostly due to its low quality single humbucking pickup and that I could get a much better sound quality by replacing it with a different pickup such as a 'DiMarzio DP120 Model One' (possibly $100) or a 'DiMarzio Will Power Neck DP145' and possibly also replacing the bridge with another such as the 'Hipshot Truetone' bridge (possibly $130). This may be costly but considering the limited selection of short-scale basses, I was thinking of investing into these upgrades until I recently discovered the Hagstrom HB-4 short-scale bass guitar.
Invalid Link Removed

It looks almost exactly like the EB-0 and I imagine that for the price (possibly $500-$600), its sound and quality would be superior. However, I had never heard of Hagstrom before and I haven't found much info about this model. I've only found one store in my area that carries this brand but they don't have the HB-4. I figure I could have them order it but I'm guessing I would have to pay a non-refundable 10% deposit or something and I might not want to purchase it afterwards if I don't like how it feels.

I would really appreciate some advice. Is it worth modifying my Epiphone (which pickup? bridge too?) or should I get the Hagstrom? Or is there a better, similar-looking short-scale available?

That Hagstrom is sweet looking. Never touched one, though. I like the Lakland hollow short scale. Never touched one of those, either. I'd like to try one.

 

[lowend1]

I would really appreciate some advice. Is it worth modifying my Epiphone (which pickup? bridge too?) or should I get the Hagstrom? Or is there a better, similar-looking short-scale available?

I have an older (pre-2000 Korean) Epi EB-0. I liked mine enough to add both the Model One and a Gibson TB Plus (at the bridge). Oh yeah - and a set of flatwounds. That is the key - do you enjoy it as is, in terms of aesthetics and playability? This mod has really transformed the bass into something far beyond its original capabilities.

 

[Delvina]

Thanks telecopy. The Lakland's design does look nice but it doesn't seem to be available in my area.

lowend1, that looks sweet! I love the EB-0's aesthetics and playability very much which is why I was hesitant to let go and move up to another guitar. If a pickup upgrade can really make such an improvement, I suppose it would be a good decision. Thanks!

 

[rujulian]

I would also go with the Squier Jaguar SS. Great value in that model. My main bass is a Squier Troy Sanders Jaguar. It's a well crafted instrument.

 

[Feral Feline]

That Hagstrom is Swede looking. ...

Fixed.


I like the Hagstrom. I like the modded upgraded EB-0. I really like the Jaguar.
Luckily, I don't have to choose for the OP.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I bought a mint condition EBO from a TBer with the Model 1 and Hipshot bridge already installed a couple of years ago. It is not my most played bass but it plays and sounds great and it is fun to play and change from my Fenders .

 

[PDGood]

The infamous Mudbucker pickup on the EB-0 is a special design that is wonderfully deep, but as you've noticed - excessively muddy.

Pickup placement is also very important to sound and generally pickups placed next to the neck are deeper and muddier sounding than they would be elsewhere. Closer to the bridge will sound less deep, thinner and brighter. The placement of the P-bass pickup is considered by many to be the sweet spot, although some also like the placement of the Stingray pickup. The point being that you will probably be better off putting a pickup between the existing ones rather than replacing the existing ones. That will give you a better location as well as a better pickup. Plus it will look cool as hell with three pickups!

 

[lowend1]

The infamous Mudbucker pickup on the EB-0 is a special design that is wonderfully deep, but as you've noticed - excessively muddy.

Pickup placement is also very important to sound and generally pickups placed next to the neck are deeper and muddier sounding than they would be elsewhere. Closer to the bridge will sound less deep, thinner and brighter. The placement of the P-bass pickup is considered by many to be the sweet spot, although some also like the placement of the Stingray pickup. The point being that you will probably be better off putting a pickup between the existing ones rather than replacing the existing ones. That will give you a better location as well as a better pickup. Plus it will look cool as hell with three pickups!

The EB-0 is a short-scale bass, so applying conventional Fender P-Bass logic is not necessarily a good move. The long-scale EB-0/3/4L is a testament to leaving well enough alone. Gibson also relocated the mudbucker in the seventies, moving it away from the neck. I own one of those EB-3s, and while it has its own charm, it is a very different animal than my '68 EB-0. Yes, there are differences in the body and neck as well, but generally speaking, most people prefer the older, "muddier" versions. The Epi is neither of these, because of differences in materials, construction and electronics. Its pickup is far from being spectacular, and greatly benefits from the right upgrade. The Model One is a good solution to the problem, unless you want to hunt down an original muddie. I have never been thrilled with the "mini humbucker" typically used in the EB-3, so I got ahold of the TB Plus, which is a little gutsier. It is sized like a guitar humbucker, so mounting rings are easy. (The TB Plus comes in a few different casings - this one was from the Les Paul Standard bass) The hard part was getting the body routed for the second pickup, but the results were well worth it. Again, the key is liking the bass in its "native" state.

 

[Delvina]

Thanks for the comments, everyone.
I was thinking of buying one of these three:
Fender Coronado ($810)
Hagstrom HB-4 ($600)
Gretsch G5442BDC Electromatic ($980)

Unfortunately, they don't have them in stock in any music store in my area. I strongly prefer to look at and try out an instrument before I buy it but in order to do so, the stores usually charge a 25% non-refundable deposit to have them specially ordered and I don't want to lose a few hundred dollars if I end up disliking the item.
One store's 25% deposit fee can go towards store credit, but I don't think I'd be spending that much money on something else in the future.
One store only charges a 10% non-refundable deposit fee but they don't carry the Hagstrom.

My other option is to modify my Epiphone EB-0 in a way similar to lowend1's post; a DiMarzio DP120 Model One pickup (~$90) or a DiMarzio Will Power Neck DP145 pickup (~$150) plus a Hipshot SuperTone Gibson 3-point bridge (~$100-$170).
These parts would have to be ordered with a 10% non-refundable deposit. A ~$80 labor fee would also be charged.
This would mean the total investment would be about $500-$600 with the parts and installation costing more than the actual bass ($230).

It's a shame I can't try out the other basses but do you guys think the mod is my best option?

 

[gfen]

Fixating on replacing the bridge is an unfortunate byproduct of being on a forum filled with outspoken people.

That applies to all the hardware, but specifically so on the bridge.

You keep saying you have to replace it, but why? Because you've found a limitation in what the stock bridge does, or because everyone says its not good enough? If you like your short scale EB-0 (I certainly do), but are unsure about the tone and feel a replacement pickup is the answer, then go ahead.. Try a pickup.

That'll have far more effect on the sound you notice than anything else. if you're happy with the results, great. You spent $100 on the Model One and everything is great. If not, you can take it out, sell it, and go back to stock and be out only $25 or so you lost in flipping it.

If you love your EB-0 more when done, great. If you decide that you need to keep going, then spend more.

 

[fjadams]

Changing the pickup will give you a completely different sound. I'm not a fan of the Epi pickups, I take them out and throw them in my box of misfit toys.

Changing the bridge won't help at all. I've changed some, left some. Really no difference in tone, but there can be a difference in functionality. The Epi bridge isn't bad, not worth changing.

I'd change the pickup and put in a StellarTone tone pot.

I'd change strings. I prefer flats or tapes on all mine. If you prefer the sound of rounds maybe look at Chromes or GHS Brite Flats or LaBella White Tapes.

If you're thinking of a new bass the Fender Starcaster is a good one, but it is heavy. The Coronado has TV Jones pickups, very good. But it's also heavy.
I heartily recommend the Squier Jag SS. I have two of them. Good out of the box and highly moddable. Look at the threads to see the things that have been done to them. The Mikey Way Squier is also a good bass.
The Gretsch solid body with two pickups is a very good bass. Can't go wrong there.
If you want to spend more money look at the Guild M85 or Starfire. Both in the $1,000 range. Worth every penny. Great pickup with the BiSonic on each.
The new Fender Rascal also looks like a good choice. I'm seriously looking at one of them.
As a last suggestion the Gibson Thunderbird SS is one of the best short scales I have. You can find them used for $750 to $1,000 on eBay. One of the best necks on a SS bass I've ever played, good balance, the ceramic pickups are clear and lots of thump.

 

[Delvina]

You're right, gfen. I just wanted to improve the sound quality of my instrument and I've heard of a few people saying they've had good results by switching to a Hipshot bridge. I wanted a new one not because I've found a limitation in what the stock one does, but because people say it's not good enough. This is my first bass guitar and I honestly don't know what difference a different bridge would make. I guess it's not worth the bother. Thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the suggestions, fjadams. I'll have to look into all of those. I was considering upgrading the tone pot and trying out different strings. I keep hearing flats can make a big difference.

 

[Feral Feline]

Just to muddy the waters further...

TB thread on the Darkstar EB-0 replacement.

There's a TB thread on the Darkstar EB-0 replacement.

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[Chahta Sia Hoke]

The HB-4 is a terrific instrument. Hagstrom has been in business for many, many years. It is a Swedish company. I could play any bass I like. I chose the HB-4. I might buy the newish Hagstrom Northen bass soon. Made in Sweden, its among the best in the world. Pricey - around $2,000 street. If you want an HB-4, there are vendors in Missouri who will sell blems (nothing to affect playairebility and the blems are extremely minor) for $325-$399. The HB is made in China on original Hagstrom tooling and the Swedish owned factory is supervised by Swedes as well.

I don't want to talk down Epiphone, but for fit, finish, playability and tone, the Hagstrom far outsrips it in every category. Buy a Hag. Been playing them since 1968.

 

[Rick Abshier]

The HB-4 is a terrific instrument. Hagstrom has been in business for many, many years. It is a Swedish company. I could play any bass I like. I chose the HB-4. I might buy the newish Hagstrom Northen bass soon. Made in Sweden, its among the best in the world. Pricey - around $2,000 street. If you want an HB-4, there are vendors in Missouri who will sell blems (nothing to affect playairebility and the blems are extremely minor) for $325-$399. The HB is made in China on original Hagstrom tooling and the Swedish owned factory is supervised by Swedes as well.

I don't want to talk down Epiphone, but for fit, finish, playability and tone, the Hagstrom far outsrips it in every category. Buy a Hag. Been playing them since 1968.

I'm just getting into playing bass and I just came across the HB-4 today on eBay. I have a Gretsch G2220 on back-order but I'm impressed by what I see and read about the HB-4. But, there aren't that many reviews that I can find. I'm wondering about the position of the strap post on the inside of the upper horn. It would seem that a strap would rub on the body more there than if it were positioned somewhere else?