EQ battles......guitar and bass and maybe drums

[nsmar4211]

Having a sound problem the last three gigs and not sure why. Equipment and strings all the same.

From where i stand, and when I walk out by the speakers, my bass has too much sustain and not enough attack. From where guitarist is, all he hears is attack and no sustain. We're only maybe 10-15 feet away from each other. Both of us have our rigs behind us, mine's aimed at about a 30-45 towards the drummer in the middle, his is aimed about 20 degrees towards the drummer. No PA support for anything but vox.

I swear I have tried every combo of eq'ing on my amp and on my bass and I can't find anything to make myself happy . Soooooo I'm thinking maybe it's a problem with the guitarist being in my sonic space, and my sustaining notes are cancelled out on his side by his amp? But, as I'm sure most of you know, changing a guitar's eq is a bigger battle..... so I need a clue where to start.

It's happened in several different sound situations, although all have involved low roofs/open fronts and sides/solid back type stages, indoors and out (typical setup here)

I'm playing through a fender bassman 15" combo with a Peavey 5 string active. He's playing through a semour duncan tupe amp (sp?) with assorted guitars, usually a custom solid body.

As for the drummer issue, i notice on certain notes if he hits his toms and I hit that note my note is GONE. . I hear nothing..... although no one else seems to notice. Which note it is varies with which tom..

So where do I start? Is there such thing as a cancellation effect that would make me hear one sound and guitarist hear another? No help from audience because everyone we ask says it sounds fine no matter what we do. Is the drummer part of it? Very frustrating.....in 4 years never had this problem. Since we're basically a 3 piece we need the sound to fill, so guitar is kinda freaking out that it's empty, wheras on my side it's fine...

 

[JohnMCA72]

Google "comb filter(ing)". Where you stand makes a big difference.

 

[nsmar4211]

Ok, so then how do we fix it? Stand in front of the opposite amp?! (won't work, we both need access our controls and drumset hurdles aren't fun).....



Any why now is it a problem, we didn't change anything and we've played some of these venues before......already check for power ground issues (none)..... it is more humid lately (90-100% at times) but I've played in high humidity before with no issues...

 

[WayneP]

From where guitarist is, all he hears is attack and no sustain.

Soooooo I'm thinking maybe it's a problem with the guitarist being in my sonic space, and my sustaining notes are cancelled out on his side by his amp?

Could be, especially if he has a lot of bass dialed into his amp.

Is he the one complaining about your notes dropping out and not sustaining? If so, the only way you’re going to have a shot at figuring out the problem is if it shows up during a practice or sound check. Obviously you can’t stop and fix the problem during a show.

If you can get the issue to show up during a practice or sound check, try this. First isolate which note you’re playing and which chord he’s playing when the problem happens. Try striking your note when he’s not playing, and see what happens. If the note rings out and sustains like it should, then all’s fine.

Then play the note again, and this time he adds his chord. If the problem shows up at that point, you have just proved that he’s the problem, not you.

Next convince him to turn down the bass on his amp, as an experiment, and you and he hit the same note/chord again. If your sustain is audibly “improved,” then you have proved that the problem is that he has too much bass dialed into his amp.

At that point, it’s up to him to decide what he wants to hear: Your notes, or his bass-heavy sound.

As for the drummer issue, i notice on certain notes if he hits his toms and I hit that note my note is GONE.

Yup, same deal; you’re both competing in the same frequency range.

I’ll bet his toms have a lot of “after-ring,” right? I.e., minimal dampening? If the toms were well-dampened, their sound would be “gone” almost immediately after he strikes them, and your notes would not be drastically affected.

As with guitar players being “married” to their EQ settings, good luck convincing the drummer to dampen his toms.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt




Pedulla Club #45

 

["Q"]

+10 to everything WayneP said. In, addition make sure your guitarist turn his master up a bit after he cuts his bass other wise he might think you just want to step on him. Also its not fair to the other if you're always high and mid crazy on every song. But it sounds like you mostly have a low end issue.

 

[hbarcat]

It's tough to diagnose this type of thing without being there, but from experience, I noticed that more often than not it's a problem of the guitar and bass both intruding on each others sonic space.

The solution is to make sure the bass is cut in the frequency range of about 300 Hz to about 2 kHz. This is the guitarist's (and vox and keys) space. Then make sure the guitar (and vox and keys) is cut below 300 Hz. This is the bassist's space. There is usually a more involved amount of adjustments that will be necessary, but failure to take this basic "separation of sonic space" into account will always make the band sound like poo.

To further tighten up the bass try cutting a bit at 60 Hz and boosting an equal amount at 120 Hz.