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Double Bass EQ For Doublebass Gigs

#21
Took all of my stuff outside today and practiced and experimented on the deck to prepare for an outdoor gig this weekend.

I learned some things about each of those bands and my amp. For one, there is a "flat/tone" button, so I was able to check back on the progress of my adjustments by going to flat. The thing is, all of the eq bands at 12:00 sounds (subtly) different than flat. Good to know. I ended up with small cuts at specific frequencies in Lo-Mid, Hi-Mid, and Hi. I have Lo at 12:00, but I experimented with using it as a HPF, but sliding the frequency center to 40hz and then cutting it dramatically. It didn't totally ruin my sound and I could slide it up or cut it less or more if I needed to.

I also tested (and indicated in another thread) my F-Deck vs a Tech21 Paradriver vs direct to the amp. The sound was better with either pre-amp inline, but the pedals set to "nothing" the Paradriver was noticeably better, but still subtle, likely due to the differences in impedance. For my outdoor gig Saturday, I'm going to go in with those amp-eq settings and try not to touch them, but use the (non-variable) HPF on the Paradriver and then tune the mids and the "blend" (wet vs dry signal) from the Paradriver, which makes a pretty noticeable difference.

It's just one set and there will be a sound guy and enough environmental variables that I expect it to be just as good or bad as anything else, but I feel good going in with a plan and like the idea that if I fiddle it will be just those two pedal settings near me instead of on the amp itself.

Thanks for everyone's coaching. I will report back.
 
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#24
TroyK said:
@Mark Gollihur wrote on their website (as I understand) that he uses the bass frequency as a HPF. Is that right, Mark?
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure I know what you mean here. The "bass" knob or slider won't perform as a true HPF - Whereas a HPF will slope off on the bottom, the "regular" EQ knob affects a certain frequency (and its adjacent frequencies) without cutting off the frequencies below it. So the bass knob isn't effective at reducing/removing the infrasonic sound (ultra-low frequencies that muddy everything up and waste amplifier power and speaker efficiency.) Using the bass EQ knob as an HPF would simply kill most of the "good" low end and leave the "bad" low end mostly intact.

If I have something confusing written on my site that seems to advocate using the bass knob as a substitute for a HPF -- if you have a moment -- please let me know where that is so that I can better clarify whatever it was we actually meant. ;-)
 
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#25
Well, I've owned up to my ignorance on the subject, so it's possible that I am reading it wrong, but this is what I what I was referencing.

How to Use a High Pass Filter on Your Amplifier (aka Low Cut Filter)

"Don't have a high pass filter on your current amp but still want to overcome the mud? There are a number of external preamps and devices that could help, either with specific high pass filters, frequency adjustable (parametric or semi-parametric) EQ sections, or the tone controls you already have. For instance, I use the lowest control of the semi-parametric EQ (tone control) section on my [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (newer iAMP versions with same preamp are available, and there are other amps and outboard units that have similar EQ sections) at the lowest setting to help clear the mud. Yes, I know we bass players instinctively do the opposite, but fight the urge and don't be afraid to roll the bass control on your amp to the left a little bit. Very often that satisfying fat tone on stage turns to mud out in the audience."
 
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#26
TroyK said:
Well, I've owned up to my ignorance on the subject, so it's possible that I am reading it wrong, but this is what I what I was referencing.

How to Use a High Pass Filter on Your Amplifier (aka Low Cut Filter)

"Don't have a high pass filter on your current amp but still want to overcome the mud? There are a number of external preamps and devices that could help, either with specific high pass filters, frequency adjustable (parametric or semi-parametric) EQ sections, or the tone controls you already have. For instance, I use the lowest control of the semi-parametric EQ (tone control) section on my [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (newer iAMP versions with same preamp are available, and there are other amps and outboard units that have similar EQ sections) at the lowest setting to help clear the mud. Yes, I know we bass players instinctively do the opposite, but fight the urge and don't be afraid to roll the bass control on your amp to the left a little bit. Very often that satisfying fat tone on stage turns to mud out in the audience."
Click to expand...

I now do this as well with the new rig, and it works great. Again, counter to all perceived brain-wisdom, the HPF on the Noble thins out the sound more than I like, but somehow with the Noble-->RedEye-->PJB Super Flightcase rig, the best result was to run the first two into the input of the PJB rather than the FX return, and to use that bottom band (it's a 5 band EQ) of the PJB to clear the mud.

Someone will likely ask why I don't run the HFPre instead, and I will answer that I ran it in the FX return for a decade or more, but with this setup, it simply isn't needed.
 
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#27
TroyK said:
Well, I've owned up to my ignorance on the subject, so it's possible that I am reading it wrong, but this is what I what I was referencing.

How to Use a High Pass Filter on Your Amplifier (aka Low Cut Filter)

"Don't have a high pass filter on your current amp but still want to overcome the mud? There are a number of external preamps and devices that could help, either with specific high pass filters, frequency adjustable (parametric or semi-parametric) EQ sections, or the tone controls you already have. For instance, I use the lowest control of the semi-parametric EQ (tone control) section on my [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (newer iAMP versions with same preamp are available, and there are other amps and outboard units that have similar EQ sections) at the lowest setting to help clear the mud. Yes, I know we bass players instinctively do the opposite, but fight the urge and don't be afraid to roll the bass control on your amp to the left a little bit. Very often that satisfying fat tone on stage turns to mud out in the audience."
Click to expand...

Awesome. Thanks for the link. That's some of my Dad's writing, and I need to clarify that it only "sort of" works with an amp that has such complex EQ controls as the iAmp he's talking about there. Appreciate it!
 
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#28
I keyed on it, because I'm using the iAmp500.

I'm not sure what the Q or the slope or whatever on those controls is, but if I set the pitch center at 40hz, it does seem I could tune down those frequencies without impacting my legit e-string notes too much and my testing yesterday sort of bore that out.

A legit HPF has some magic to it that, I'm certain, is better. I really don't get why amps made with DB in mind don't all have HPF built in, like the AI does.
 
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#29
TroyK said:
@Martin Spure I don't have Logic Pro, but I'll see if I have access to something that I could do that with. I can see how that would open my eyes up.

@Wasnex My iAmp has a parametric EQ. The frequency ranges are:

Bass: 40 - 180
Low-Mid: 180 - 1k
Hi-Mid: 880 - 8k
Treble: 1k - 8k

@Mark Gollihur wrote on their website (as I understand) that he uses the bass frequency as a HPF. Is that right, Mark?
Click to expand...

Just a note that the OLDER iAmps (500, 600, 800, Pro) had two-position bandwidth (Q) switches on the Low-Mid and High-Mid controls. That still doesn't make them fully parametric, but it gave those amps a bit more control through the midrange bands.
 
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#30
To avoid some possible confusion:
Parametric filters control a range around the center frequency, outside that range frequencies are unaffected.
Normal bass and Treble EQ are shelving filters which are fixed in frequency and steepness (dB/oct.) but affect all frequencies below (bass) or above (treble).

So an iAmp might be a rather special case that should not be transferred to most other EQs without thinking twice about it.
 
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#31
One thing I learned from my son, play to learn. Get an eq application for your computer. Put on some headphones and start listening to music. Play with the eq and learn what it does to sound. I learn a lot by following audiophile headphone/iem channels. Dipping into the audiophile world of sound has helped me understand frequency response.
 
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#35
My strategy worked well today. Sound was good. I went in with my amp's eq settings. I made one small tweak during soundcheck. I said to the soundguy "it usually works best if you roll everything off below 80hz on my channel" (as if I knew). Then once the set started, just tuned the blend on my paradriver a bit once.

I like this strategy. I'll keep trying to educate my ears on using semi-parametric eq, but intend to set it either in soundcheck or go in with my favorite defaults and then use the mids and blend on my paradriver once we get going.
 
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#36
TroyK said:
My strategy worked well today. Sound was good. I went in with my amp's eq settings. I made one small tweak during soundcheck. I said to the soundguy "it usually works best if you roll everything off below 80hz on my channel" (as if I knew). Then once the set started, just tuned the blend on my paradriver a bit once.
Click to expand...

The 80hz request is a good default because many boards like Mackie and others have an 80hz roll off button at the top of the channel right beneath the trim pot for each channel. Makes for an easy one step solution for the sound person.
 
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#37
The Genzler RE/q pedal I bought in the Classifieds is turning out to be a godsend. HPF, LPF, 4-band EQ. Signal path (for now) is pickup > Red Eye preamp > RE/q > AI Clarus or Bugera Veyron effects in > Revsound RS210 cab. Never wanted a pedal board but now don’t know how I lived without one.
 
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#38
Rehearsed with one of my groups today in the drummer's basement:

Grand piano, drums, vocals, trumpet, and me.

He has a GK Backline 110, so I just use it rather than transport. But this time, I brought the Paradriver, set flat. Turned the blend essentially off and tuned the mids in the amp a little, then brought the blend up...better. swept the mid frequency on the paradriver and beautiful..perfect maybe. We workshopped an original latin tune and things got a little muddy, reached town and trimmed the mids up a little, then a bit more blend and all good. Never touched the amp after I got set up.

I like this system. I'm going to ride it until it breaks.
 
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#39
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Someone will likely ask why I don't run the HFPre instead, and I will answer that I ran it in the FX return for a decade or more, but with this setup, it simply isn't needed.
Click to expand...

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I never used the FX loop, so how can this be used and how did you use it?

1) bass signal in amp's input and pedal in amp's send AND return or
2) bass signal in pedal -> amp fx return

Do both 1) and 2) work?

I believe 2nd method bypases amp's preamp?
 

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