EQ questions (Fearless and Jule Monique content)

[Laklandfan]

Hi, I'm using the rig described in my sig. I'm having an issue where it seems certain rooms are more boomy than others. In some rooms the tone is warm, pretty deep, yet articulate and clean. I really really like it. Lots of compliments from guitar players.
It sounds great in some rooms, but sometimes in others it seems to get really boomy. I don't seem to hear as much clarity of the notes. I've tried cutting lows on the Monique in order try to get rid of it, but to no avail. I'm wondering do I need to use a more flexible EQ to try to find the troublesome frequencies and pull them down?

 

[CL400Peavey]

@BurningSkies has answers.

Fdeck HPF-3.

 

[will33]

More likely room acoustics than anything else. Fearfuls are certainly not short on the output that excites those things. Following a guide for subwoofer placement is not a bad place to start when it comes to employing Fearfuls, as the woofer is essentially a 15" subwoofer.


Possibly try placement, and/or the optional port shelf extension before buying more gear?

 

[will33]

Most subwoofer placement guides are geared towards minimizing room modes, though if you have a particularly boomy room, you can use the same theory "in reverse" to create a notch where you need one. Fdecks HPF and/or a small 1 or 2 band (fully) parametric eq are also good solutions.

 

[Laklandfan]

Most subwoofer placement guides are geared towards minimizing room modes, though if you have a particularly boomy room, you can use the same theory "in reverse" to create a notch where you need one. Fdecks HPF and/or a small 1 or 2 band (fully) parametric eq are also good solutions.

@BurningSkies has answers.

Fdeck HPF-3.

Room modes? It seems like carpeted floors usually sound better than when playing on smooth floor, so that may be a clue to what's going on. I also considered there could be some coupling going on, maybe raising the cab up off the floor may help? I don't have an Fdeck but a few guys on the green boy forums like them. This may be why. I have an empress paraEQ maybe i could try it, I'm not sure if this ideal for this purpose. I just got to figure out where these frequencies are.

 

[will33]

Has to do with the distance from your cab to boundries (walls mostly, ceiling and floor are fairly fixed, though a speaker stand can manipulate it some.

Basically try it closer to, or further away from walls. Hollow or loose/vibrating stages cause problems for bassists as well. Hence trying the Fearful port extension. Might help tame some problem areas while the system has no issue dialing in more booty in places those problems aren't a problem.

 

[will33]

Carpeted floors help smooth some of the "floorbounce" ( reflections/whackyness in the midranges output) leading to smoother, perhaps slightly more subdued mid output in comparison to the lows.

Some pice of carpet isn't going to do anything to the real lows, but it will change the character of the mids, making the lows seem different by comparison.

 

[will33]

Room modes? It seems like carpeted floors usually sound better than when playing on smooth floor, so that may be a clue to what's going on. I also considered there could be some coupling going on, maybe raising the cab up off the floor may help? I don't have an Fdeck but a few guys on the green boy forums like them. This may be why. I have an empress paraEQ maybe i could try it, I'm not sure if this ideal for this purpose. I just got to figure out where these frequencies are.

If you have a paraEQ, start by boosting it....a lot. Sweep around to find the resonance. Use the Q to zero in on the resonance, basically making it sound as bad as you can. That helps you find the problem freq. Then, once you've isolated the problem, roll from boost to cut to eliminate the problem.


Whatever your boom/mud problems are could likely be solved with judicious use of that paraEQ. Might not need any additional gadgets.

 

[BassHappy]

I am a FLAT guy. I was taught for studio work that if you have to cut or boost more than 2 or 3 db anywhere - something else is wrong. If that happens, worry about mic placement or reconfigure your direct signal path.

HOWEVER, when it comes to the room, don't let the EQ on the lower frequencies freak you out. Dial it down even radically if you need to - until it sounds great - and ignore what it looks like on the front panel. Sometimes the low frequency room spikes are dramatic and you need to dial your EQ drastically to level it out. Don't worry if the EQ settings look radical and funny, only worry if you can't get the sound dialed in to a pretty "normal" sound off the stage. Most of the gremlins reside in the lower frequencies - meaning the mid range is generally a matter of taste. Just make sure the low end is properly barking, and make sure the FOH in the worst case has independent control of your signal. In that way, if you can't tame the gremlins completely on stage - at least your audio pro has a fair shot at taming them out front. After all, that is where it really matters.

Venue acoustics can be nightmares - don't fall into the trap of being too tuned in to the panel settings - use your ears as your guide, or if you are really struggling - and you trust the FOH audio man - give him a shot at dialing your stage rig in for you. It is so much easier for him because he can dial as you continue to play. If it sounds great, just don't look at the settings.

If you are having a consistent problem in the venues you play and have PA support, and don't need to carry the room, consider switching to something along these lines:

 

[will33]

I am a FLAT guy. I was taught for studio work that if you have to cut or boost more than 2 or 3 db anywhere - something else is wrong. If that happens, worry about mic placement or reconfigure your direct signal path.

HOWEVER, when it comes to the room, don't let the EQ on the lower frequencies freak you out. Dial it down even radically if you need to - until it sounds great - and ignore what it looks like on the front panel. Sometimes the low frequency room spikes are dramatic and you need to dial your EQ dramatically to level it out. Don't worry if the EQ settings look radical and funny, only worry if you can't get the sound dialed in to a pretty "normal" sound off the stage. Most of the gremlins reside in the lower frequencies - meaning the mid range is generally a matter of taste. Just make sure the low end is properly barking, and make sure the FOH in the worst case has independent control of your signal. In that way, if you can't tame the gremlins completely on stage - at least your audio pro has a fair shot at taming them out front. After all, that is where it really matters.

Venue acoustics can be nightmares - don't fall into the trap of being too tuned in to the panel settings - use your ears as your guide, or if you are really struggling - and you trust the FOH audio man - give him a shot at dialing in your stage rig in for you. If it sounds great, just don't look at the settings.

A good example of turn knobs with your ears, not your eyes.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Get an Fdeck. It eliminates the subsonic "junk" that uses up unnecessary energy and can contribute to that boom you mention. I always use on especially when playing acoustic bass through my F110 or F210. It's a simpler solution than monkeying around with EQ settings. I also used to have an Empress Para-EQ. While that's a great device, you REALLY need to have a handle on what the various frequencies and Q settings do in a variety of settings. Slip an Fdeck in the chain and problem solved.

 

[BassHappy]

Get an Fdeck. It eliminates the subsonic "junk" that uses up unnecessary energy and can contribute to that boom you mention. I always use on especially when playing acoustic bass through my F110 or F210. It's a simpler solution than monkeying around with EQ settings. I also used to have an Empress Para-EQ. While that's a great device, you REALLY need to have a handle on what the various frequencies and Q settings do in a variety of settings. Slip an Fdeck in the chain and problem solved.

Hey Ukiah

Sounds like an interesting solution. Can you provide anything more - and I guess it also works on a fairly standard electric bass as well?

 

[BurningSkies]

Ok, similar but different, I use a Monique and a fEARful. For a few years now I've also incorporated Francis Deck's HPF Series 3 with great success.

The Monique has a very wide shelving bass control (with 18db on each side of center) and I think it sits right around 53hz IIRC. What that means is that it can get you into some trouble in the deep lows and subsonics if your cab can produce stuff down in that range. Of course, Dave's cabs do just that. I've found that the HPF3 is very effective in sculpting out any of the deep lows that interfere with the low end coherence in your audible tone as well as dealing with deficiencies due to room issues. Simply, most rooms I can leave the HPF3 set at it's default lowest (24db per octave slope at 35hz) and get rid of unnecessary sub without losing perceptible low end tone. If you have a room that does indeed boom, or ring, you can roll UP the HPF until you hit your danger zone.

For me, I combine the steep roll off at 35hz with boosting the Monique's lows and also a bit of boost on the lows on my Aguilar OBP-1 to create a bump in the lows that cut off abruptly before causing trouble in the sub-lows. It cleans up the room rather than altering your bass tone. It also protects your speakers from over excursion from frequencies that you can't even hear.

 

[dmrogers]

Great posts so far, nothing else to add. Just confirming that once you get an fdeck Series 3 in the signal chain, it makes life so much easier. You will not want to be without it.


Check out the web site: fdeck HPF

 

[Laklandfan]

Hey Ukiah

Sounds like an interesting solution. Can you provide anything more - and I guess it also works on a fairly standard electric bass as well?

Ok, similar but different, I use a Monique and a fEARful. For a few years now I've also incorporated Francis Deck's HPF Series 3 with great success.

The Monique has a very wide shelving bass control (with 18db on each side of center) and I think it sits right around 53hz IIRC. What that means is that it can get you into some trouble in the deep lows and subsonics if your cab can produce stuff down in that range. Of course, Dave's cabs do just that. I've found that the HPF3 is very effective in sculpting out any of the deep lows that interfere with the low end coherence in your audible tone as well as dealing with deficiencies due to room issues. Simply, most rooms I can leave the HPF3 set at it's default lowest (24db per octave slope at 35hz) and get rid of unnecessary sub without losing perceptible low end tone. If you have a room that does indeed boom, or ring, you can roll UP the HPF until you hit your danger zone.

For me, I combine the steep roll off at 35hz with boosting the Monique's lows and also a bit of boost on the lows on my Aguilar OBP-1 to create a bump in the lows that cut off abruptly before causing trouble in the sub-lows. It cleans up the room rather than altering your bass tone. It also protects your speakers from over excursion from frequencies that you can't even hear.

Yep, Ukiah I think you were first I time I ever heard of the F-decks. Because I'm 99% a four string player so I thought I wouldn't be putting out enough really low frequencies to need it. I was wrong, they don't seem extremely expensive. I'm off to the classifieds to see if there's any used ones.

 

[BurningSkies]

Yep, Ukiah I think you were first I time I ever heard of the F-decks. Because I'm 99% a four string player so I thought I wouldn't be putting out enough really low frequencies to need it. I was wrong, they don't seem extremely expensive. I'm off to the classifieds to see if there's any used ones.

Don't be afraid to deal directly with Francis, since I don't see a lot of the 3's on the used market. He's a one-man shop. Mine is one of the early ones, either a proto or one of the very first batch, and Unless I'm recording, it's always in my setup. Its not only a benefit for my sound, but also protection for my speakers from causing them mechanical damage. Your bass WILL be putting out deep lows even with a four string...ever thump on your strings with them muted?

I discussed with Jule about the deep lows that the Monique is capable of, since no other amp I've had or preamp seems to have extended that low. Some of that might be built in 'invisible' HPFing that many production amps have built in, but I noticed that my Kern tube preamp doesn't seem to extend that deep even when I have the lows boosted and the 'deep' control engaged. Jule's end design decision was 'more is more' meaning he wanted to send as MUCH signal (frequency range) to the board, and/or the out as possible. Then, it becomes the territory of the engineer and/or player to massage that or not.

I've run my HPF-3 both in front of the Monique and in between the pre and power stages and they're definitely different. I decided I didn't like having to worry about headroom on the gain stage in between the two and have stuck with it out front.

 

[Laklandfan]

Don't be afraid to deal directly with Francis, since I don't see a lot of the 3's on the used market. He's a one-man shop. Mine is one of the early ones, either a proto or one of the very first batch, and Unless I'm recording, it's always in my setup. Its not only a benefit for my sound, but also protection for my speakers from causing them mechanical damage. Your bass WILL be putting out deep lows even with a four string...ever thump on your strings with them muted?

I discussed with Jule about the deep lows that the Monique is capable of, since no other amp I've had or preamp seems to have extended that low. Some of that might be built in 'invisible' HPFing that many production amps have built in, but I noticed that my Kern tube preamp doesn't seem to extend that deep even when I have the lows boosted and the 'deep' control engaged. Jule's end design decision was 'more is more' meaning he wanted to send as MUCH signal (frequency range) to the board, and/or the out as possible. Then, it becomes the territory of the engineer and/or player to massage that or not.

I've run my HPF-3 both in front of the Monique and in between the pre and power stages and they're definitely different. I decided I didn't like having to worry about headroom on the gain stage in between the two and have stuck with it out front.

In the context of a pedal board, can I run in line? Where would I put it?

 

[BurningSkies]

In the context of a pedal board, can I run in line? Where would I put it?

Some of that probably depends upon your pedal board and what you're using. I'd suggest putting it at the back-door of the board, right before the preamp, unless you're using compression, in which case you may want to play with it before or after.

 

[CL400Peavey]

In the context of a pedal board, can I run in line? Where would I put it?

Anywhere you want really, as long as your not sending a rediculous amount of gain through it.

I usually run mine first thing, but it works fine last in the chain as well. I ran in to issues running it through the post gain effects loop on my ampeg. That is only due to me running the gain very, very, very high. Under "normal use" it wouldnt be an issue.

 

[Laklandfan]

Some of that probably depends upon your pedal board and what you're using. I'd suggest putting it at the back-door of the board, right before the preamp, unless you're using compression, in which case you may want to play with it before or after.

I do use a diamond comp, so a little compression. Maybe the hpf at the beginning May change the behavior of some of the pedals.