EQing Tips?

[Jammy Jellyfish]

Short version

I’m especially having trouble with:

• Removing boom without losing too much bass;
• Removing “ping” (something in the treble/high mids) on the G and C strings without losing too much definition;
• How to deal with mids;
• Should I put the Broughton Resonant Filter Equalizer before or after the Strymon Deco, which I use as an always-on preamp;
• If I should return the Broughton Resonant Filter Equalizer for an Empress Bass ParaEQ?

I play a 6-string short scale bass, and I’m looking for a smooth modern R&B/neo-soul tone that’s audible but also doesn’t cut through the mix à la Geddy Lee. I’m playing bass > Cali76 > Octabvre > Deco > Broughton RFE > Aguilar AG amplifier DI into interface > Sennheiser HD650. I’ve been experimenting with the AG’s cab sim as well.*

Long story

I’ve never really played with EQ before. I’ve always been in camp everything-at-noon-sounds-perfect, but I’ve come to realize it’s keyword for “I don’t know anything about EQ.”

I recently finally found a saturation pedal I like, the Strymon Deco, but it is overwhelmingly boomy, so I bought a Broughton RFE for the high-pass filter.*

The RFE is amazing, and I’ve started playing with EQ by ear as the internet hasn’t been very been helpful—it’s mostly about EQing for rock tones and long-scale basses.

I’ve managed to remove the boom, but I can’t seem to find the line between “boom” and “bass.” It seems like either I have too much boom and not enough bass or vice-versa. The Aguilar’s bass knob is at 40 Hz. Right now it’s at 11 o’clock and the HPF is at around 60 Hz. I’ve been trying to fix this with the REF’s resonance, but I’m not completely satisfied.

Then there’s something in the treble/high mids that’s annoying me. I also can’t seem to pin point it. I can’t seem to find a point between “definition” and “ping” on the G and C strings with the treble (4 kHz) and high-mids (800 Hz) on the Aguilar. On the RFE, the low past filter is at around 2-3 kHz. I’ve been trying to fix this with the resonance, but I’m not completely satisfied.

Mistake time: I’ve dialled in a great tone… without a mix. I knew my tone wouldn’t work with my band, but I didn’t realize it would get that buried when playing to music in my headphones. Without a mix, my high-mids were at 8 o’clock and my low-mids (300 Hz) at 9 o’clock. With the mix, I’ve raised them to 10 and 11 respectively.

However, there’s also the semi-para EQ mid on the RFE. What I’ve been doing with that one is cranking the gain and then sweeping the frequency. I’ve noticed two disgusting frequencies, which are about 250-300 Hz and 800-900 Hz, but how do I decide which one to prioritize, especially in conjunction with the AG?

The more pressing question: I’ve had the RFE for week, and today’s the last day I can return it. I’ve been wondering if I shouldn’t and “upgrade” to Empress’s Bass ParaEQ.

AI is telling me probably not, but AI is often wrong:

• I have enough EQing with the AG and RFE, and I also have an 4-band preamp in my bass that I haven’t touched;
• Too many EQs cause phasing issues, option paralysis and other issues;
• The RFE is a better tool to simulate a cab or fix a cab sim than the Empress, which seems to my issue.

When my 4-string short scale passive Serek is ready, it will become my main bass, though, so I’ve been thinking maybe the ParaEQ would be useful then?

Where I’m at now, or about the Deco and AG’s cab sim

I bought the Deco to use as a drive pedal. It actually has a HPF function, but I found using it annoying because of how it affected the low-end when using the octave pedal with versus without the Deco. Then I realized the AG’s cab sim was the main culprit for the boom, so I turned it off and tried to simulate a cab sim with the RFE.

Then I started loving the Deco has an always-on preamp of sorts to warm up the AG.

This morning I thought maybe reengaging the cab sim in the AG could help tame the “ping” on the G and C strings and maybe I could work around the boom and lack of highs with the HPF in the Deco now that it’s always on and the RFE. It seems like I’m on a good path with the AG cab sim on. But I guess now I’m wondering also, should the Deco be before or after the RFE/EQ?

Sorry for the long-winded post and thank you!

 

[WayneP]

That’s a lot to absorb. I think AI is right – there’s just too much going on here. IMO you should strip down to the basics – bass and Aggie preamp. Get that sounding right, then add pedals / sims back in one at a time.

A common cause of “buried bass” in a mix is not paying attention to basic frequency slotting.
For an example, give a listen to a favorite song where you think the bass sounds great. Notice that it’s mostly “under” everything else in the mix; there’s nothing else competing in its sonic space. IOW, the other instruments (except perhaps drums) sound a bit “thin” when they’re featured alone (i.e. the intro).

Thus, if the instruments and vocals in the music source you’re playing along with (the “band” you referred to?) are all bass-heavy, then go back and EQ them with reduced lows. If you don’t have access to individual tracks, the just turn down the bass level of the whole mix via the playback device.

In addition:

Without a mix, my high-mids were at 8 o’clock and my low-mids (300 Hz) at 9 o’clock.

This is 100% wrong. You’ve sucked out all the midrange frequencies (where “tone” lives), leaving nothing but rumble and fret clanking. Add in a bass-heavy music track to play with – yeah, you’re lost in the mix.

To get on the right track, start by drastically reducing the lows of your music source so you can hear your bass. Set the Aggie’s EQ for flat across the board (12:00, or bypassed if that option is available), as well as all EQ on the bass. Play the music with your bass and listen for 30 minutes or more, to get your ears acclimated to the true sound of the bass. This is key; you’ve been listening with the bass tone so wacked, anything resembling “correct” isn’t going to sound good to you, initially. Yes, the music will sound sucky and “thin,” but ignore that for the time being.

After some time acclimating, incrementally add back some lows to the music source. At some point, the music should sound nice and “full,” with your bass blending in nicely, rounding out the bottom end. At this point you might want to EQ the bass a bit to taste. The key is “a bit” - it shouldn’t need anything drastic. Start with the bass’s on-board EQ, as presumably it’s optimized for the bass (as opposed to the generic EQ on the Aggie). Panning / blending between neck and bridge pickups (if you have two) can also have significant effect on the tone.

At this point I’d let things “simmer” for a while - just spend a few weeks getting used to the way things sound, which hopefully you will find pleasant, or at least acceptable.

Then, you can add your EFX devices back one at a time. I’m not a peddler myself, but I’d think they should make an enhancement to the basic sound, not wreck it in the mix. With any luck you’ll find that one (or more) of the pedals is the source of the bad sound you didn’t like, such as the “ping” thing (I’m at a loss on that one – I’d have to hear it).

Something to keep in mind, listening through high-quality headphones like the 650s can be a challenge with sources that weren’t professionally produced, since they usually have much better ultra-low frequency response (i.e. 40 Hz and below) than a typical PA system or stage bass rig. As such, a high pass filter for the bass might be a good idea.

The only thing I’ll say about the specific pedals (seeing as I know nothing about any of them) is that it appears the Empress will do everything the Broughten RFE will, plus have more (and better) parametric filters.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide
Administrator, Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses

 

[Wasnex]

IME, it's pretty rare to be totally happy with the sound you hear on stage. So, probably the best advice I can give you is lower your expectations.

As far as EQ strategies: Understand that dialing in perfect tone involves a different strategy and priorities than dealing with acoustic degradation and slotting into a mix.

The biggest issue you have to deal with is commonly called masking. Basically if two sound sources produce the same frequency, you will hear which ever source is louder, and the quieter source will be masked. IMHO this is why your nice pretty solo tone gets lost.

A note on bass include the fundamental as well as overtones that related to the fundamental. It also include high frequency transients that are related to your attack.

Sound bouncing around in an acoustic space can build up and cause severe masking. Additionally low frequencies can excite overtones in the room.

That strategy I use increases the ratio of direct sound I hear coming from my rig in relation to the indirect sound bouncing around the room. By hearing more direct sound, my tone seem more focused and clear. What I do is elevate my cab and aim it straight at my ears. I normally had full PA support; so my rig served as my personal monitor and was not expected to carry the room. Elevating and tilting the cab was intended to help me hear with my rig at the lowest possible volume, so the audio tech had more control over how the bass sounded in the house.

In addition to elevating and tilting my cab, I tended to run lean lows and lots of mids and highs. I basically tried to find a balance where my sound seemed even across the entire frequency range of the bass. IME, if the lows are too strong it tends to cause masking at a higher frequency. So part of my process was dialing the lows back until I got as much clarity and evenness as I could. IME as acoustics get worse, the more it was necessary to dial back the low end.

Ultimately you do the best you can and then should focus on doing the gig. Sometimes the best thing you can do it turn your rig down and put on a smile as if everything is perfect.

 

[Zbysek]

This is my general approach to EQing bass.

There are two important frequency ranges for my sound. I call them the "body" and the "nose".

Body is a range between 80Hz and 200Hz. I try to keep this frequency range intact. I don't cut it...and I don't boost it (usually).

Nose is somewhere between 700Hz and 2.5kHz. That's the frequency which helps me to cut through the mix. For each bass and each of my bands the nose frequency is different. Fo one bass, it might bee 800Hz, for other bass/band it might be at 2kHz. I try to find the nose with either parametric mids EQ or combination of LPF and resonance.

I don't need the other frequencies too much...so I usually cut them (at least a little bit).

The frequencies I usualy cut:

low lows with an HPF (set between 30Hz and 80Hz)
low mids (anywhere between 250-500 Hz).
highs with an LPF (set between 2.5 and 4 kHz).

The extent which I apply it depends on specific circumstances-like acoustics of the room, specific bass, the band and genre. Sometimes I use almost flat sound (no cutting of low mids, HPF around 30Hz, LPF around 4kHz).

I usually don't boost lows. I might boost lows only when raising HPF let's say above 70Hz.

To answer your questions:

Removing boom without losing too much bass

Try raising HPF and cutting low mids (200-300Hz).

Removing “ping” (something in the treble/high mids) on the G and C strings without losing too much definition

Try setting LPF as low as 1.5kHz and add resonance to regain definition.

How to deal with mids?

I am using the mids control on my RFE to either cut low mids (300-500) or boost (high) mids (750-2000Hz).

Should I put the Broughton Resonant Filter Equalizer before or after the Strymon Deco, which I use as an always-on preamp?

If you place RFE after Strymon, its LPF will help you to deal with the "ping" in the highs/high mids..

If I should return the Broughton Resonant Filter Equalizer for an Empress Bass ParaEQ?

I would keep the RFE if I were you.

Good luck!

 

[_Some Dude]

My suggestion is to go on youtube and search for isolated bass versions of songs with a sound you're interested in. It'll give you an idea of how the bass actually sounded when dialled in for a mix.

Some of those neo-soul mixes have a synth below the bass to fatten the track up.