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EQing to different rooms and volumes

G

GBassLondon

May 29, 2013
96
41
London
www.soundcloud.com
#1
I play in a three piece, quite loud metalcore type stuff but quite precise too. We often end up in different practice rooms and I sometimes struggle to get the right bass sound.

The guitarist uses an amp profiler into a Headrush unit which always sounds pretty decent. He is very good indeed and very precise.

I play a jazz bass into a Seymour Duncan studio bass compressor, then through an Alpha Omega Ultra into an Orange Terror Bass head and an Eden 4x10 cab.

I have been trying to dial a tone I really like through the six band EQ on the AOU then adapting the three band EQ on the amp to the room but this doesn’t seem to work always. I tend to end up with too much treble, or too much boom or just not being able to hear it. Everything on the bass is on full.

My question is how would you adjust this rig when in a new room? We play loud (not my choice) and I am wondering if the EQ has to change loads at high volumes or something?

You can assume that I know what the different frequencies do and that I want to stay out of guitar frequencies etc. I’m more after how people would go about this in the room, not necessarily “ideal settings”.

the basic tone of the jazz is awesome so it’s not that I dislike it or anything.
Thanks!!
 
#2
Personally I’d start flat across the EQ and in most cases I’m dropping or raising the middle bands first and adjusting the highs on the bass guitar.
You might also get an easy win from a HPF because that’s a great cab but you may be overcompensating with treble range when the guitar is too loud? You should have the EQ options you need. Also have you tried lifting or tilting your cab? In a tight room it might help your perception.

Also I’ll ask a stupid question. Sorry. Are the other members having trouble hearing or is it you? If it’s just you then maybe some decent ear protection will dial back the mid/high from the guitar so you’ll hear yourself better.

Good luck.
 
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#3
Killing Floor said:
Personally I’d start flat across the EQ and in most cases I’m dropping or raising the middle bands first and adjusting the highs on the bass guitar.
You might also get an easy win from a HPF because that’s a great cab but you may be overcompensating with treble range when the guitar is too loud? You should have the EQ options you need. Also have you tried lifting or tilting your cab? In a tight room it might help your perception.

Also I’ll ask a stupid question. Sorry. Are the other members having trouble hearing or is it you? If it’s just you then maybe some decent ear protection will dial back the mid/high from the guitar so you’ll hear yourself better.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

I have some ear protection. I’m having trouble sitting it in the mix properly. The others aren’t wildly bothered about the bass haha!

Might try tilting, unfortunately the cab is on wheels.

There is a high pass filter on the AOU pedal so I could shut that off.

Would you use just the six band pedal EQ with the amp flat btw?
 
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#4
I’d definitely start with the amp flat if I have an EQ pedal with more shaping.
Give it a go. Can’t hurt to try.
I’m not co corned about amp EQ versus pedal/preamp EQ but start with the amp flat and that way you’re not making your problem harder to solve. The AO has good shaping.
 
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#5
GBassLondon said:
I play in a three piece, quite loud metalcore type stuff but quite precise too. We often end up in different practice rooms and I sometimes struggle to get the right bass sound.

The guitarist uses an amp profiler into a Headrush unit which always sounds pretty decent. He is very good indeed and very precise.

I play a jazz bass into a Seymour Duncan studio bass compressor, then through an Alpha Omega Ultra into an Orange Terror Bass head and an Eden 4x10 cab.

I have been trying to dial a tone I really like through the six band EQ on the AOU then adapting the three band EQ on the amp to the room but this doesn’t seem to work always. I tend to end up with too much treble, or too much boom or just not being able to hear it. Everything on the bass is on full.

My question is how would you adjust this rig when in a new room? We play loud (not my choice) and I am wondering if the EQ has to change loads at high volumes or something?

You can assume that I know what the different frequencies do and that I want to stay out of guitar frequencies etc. I’m more after how people would go about this in the room, not necessarily “ideal settings”.

the basic tone of the jazz is awesome so it’s not that I dislike it or anything.
Thanks!!
Click to expand...

I tend to adjust for each location, and the way I adjust varies by the equipment I am using.

I would use the TB500 to get my basic tone, and use the Alpha Omega Ultra to fine tune for volume and the room problems. The tone stack in the TB500 sounds good, but it is not flexible enough to deal with acoustic problems. I suggest starting with the following clock face settings: Bass 10:00, Middle 3:00, Treble 9:00. Here is a tone stack modeler setup with the component values from the series I TB500 TSC in the web (guitarscience.net). It's not 100% accurate, but it should give you a better idea how the amp's controls actually work.

One problem is you need to actually like the voicing of the TB500. If not, try plugging the Alpha Omega Ultra into the amp's Effects Return. This will insert the signal after the tone stack directly into the master Volume. Whether this will work, or not, will depend on the max output of the Alpha Omega Ultra and how hot of a signal the effects return needs.

The Alpha Omega Ultra breaks the frequency spectrum down into six bands. The bands are narrower and give you more precise control.

With an active bass I suggest starting with the bass's tone control flat. If you can't get all the way there with the amp and the Alpha Omega Ultra, use a small amount of cut or boost on the bass. With a passive bass I start with the tone controls wide open. On two pickup bass, I generally prefer backing one of the pickups off a touch. This usually results in a more focused/clear tone. On most basses I like to slightly favor the bridge pickup, but on my #1 I prefer to slightly favor the neck pickup.

Tone is subjective so don't take anything I have written as dogma.

Good Luck!
 
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#6
In many rooms a device like the Broughton HPF/LPF can save the day...
Other rooms where there is a standing wave you also need to be able to dial down the octaves. Which means multi and parametric and enough time to dial.

If you are in a position where FOH is provided, outsource that to the FOH guy...

Frankly, the high volume is not going to help. There simply is no reason to have it in 2022. It is simply self defeating machismo...
 
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#7
It’s more
4Mal said:
In many rooms a device like the Broughton HPF/LPF can save the day...
Other rooms where there is a standing wave you also need to be able to dial down the octaves. Which means multi and parametric and enough time to dial.

If you are in a position where FOH is provided, outsource that to the FOH guy...

Frankly, the high volume is not going to help. There simply is no reason to have it in 2022. It is simply self defeating machismo...
Click to expand...
to be able to hear things above the cymbals unfortunately
 
#8
Wasnex said:
I tend to adjust for each location, and the way I adjust varies by the equipment I am using.

I would use the TB500 to get my basic tone, and use the Alpha Omega Ultra to fine tune for volume and the room problems. The tone stack in the TB500 sounds good, but it is not flexible enough to deal with acoustic problems. I suggest starting with the following clock face settings: Bass 10:00, Middle 3:00, Treble 9:00. Here is a tone stack modeler setup with the component values from the series I TB500 TSC in the web (guitarscience.net). It's not 100% accurate, but it should give you a better idea how the amp's controls actually work.

One problem is you need to actually like the voicing of the TB500. If not, try plugging the Alpha Omega Ultra into the amp's Effects Return. This will insert the signal after the tone stack directly into the master Volume. Whether this will work, or not, will depend on the max output of the Alpha Omega Ultra and how hot of a signal the effects return needs.

The Alpha Omega Ultra breaks the frequency spectrum down into six bands. The bands are narrower and give you more precise control.

With an active bass I suggest starting with the bass's tone control flat. If you can't get all the way there with the amp and the Alpha Omega Ultra, use a small amount of cut or boost on the bass. With a passive bass I start with the tone controls wide open. On two pickup bass, I generally prefer backing one of the pickups off a touch. This usually results in a more focused/clear tone. On most basses I like to slightly favor the bridge pickup, but on my #1 I prefer to slightly favor the neck pickup.

Tone is subjective so don't take anything I have written as dogma.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...
YOU ARE AWESOME
 
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#9
GBassLondon said:
I play in a three piece, quite loud metalcore type stuff but quite precise too. We often end up in different practice rooms and I sometimes struggle to get the right bass sound.

The guitarist uses an amp profiler into a Headrush unit which always sounds pretty decent. He is very good indeed and very precise.

I play a jazz bass into a Seymour Duncan studio bass compressor, then through an Alpha Omega Ultra into an Orange Terror Bass head and an Eden 4x10 cab.

I have been trying to dial a tone I really like through the six band EQ on the AOU then adapting the three band EQ on the amp to the room but this doesn’t seem to work always. I tend to end up with too much treble, or too much boom or just not being able to hear it. Everything on the bass is on full.

My question is how would you adjust this rig when in a new room? We play loud (not my choice) and I am wondering if the EQ has to change loads at high volumes or something?

You can assume that I know what the different frequencies do and that I want to stay out of guitar frequencies etc. I’m more after how people would go about this in the room, not necessarily “ideal settings”.

the basic tone of the jazz is awesome so it’s not that I dislike it or anything.
Thanks!!
Click to expand...
I always go by this when setting head EQ
 
#14
Most rooms emphasis certain frequencies that seem louder than others. These are called nodes. These are a result of the room shape, dimensions, what objects are in the room, the materials on the wall, etc. Add to that the effects of positive and negative interference from reflections, and you can sometimes have a real messy sound. A lot of getting the best sound out of the room is by mitigating these effects. (You won't be able to get rid of them completely.) Most decent rooms will have a couple of these problem frequencies that need to be dealt with.

Here are some simple steps you can take:
  1. Try moving your cab around to different places in the room. Some locations will have less node and reflection issues than others.
  2. Move the cab away from the corners to reduce bass boom
  3. If the cab is near a wall, it should be as close a possible.
  4. Use a variable high-pass filter. This could fix a lot of problems quickly.
  5. Raise the cab off the floor to get it closer to your ears.
Next level:
  1. Use a fully parametric eq with at least a couple of bands. This takes some practice. Start with 'Q' set to 1, (one octave). Boost the band about 10dB. While playing, slowly sweep the frequency until you hear a jump in volume. Now narrow the frequency range by increasing the 'Q' value. Again, sweep the frequency right around the one you identified as louder. Repeat until you have narrowed the problem frequency as much as possible. Now reduce the gain for the band. Typically 2-3 dB of reduction is all you need. You will hear that the sound cleans up a lot without having a noticeable change in sound of you bass. This method is very effective when you don't want to cut the lows, but you still need to clean up some. The down side is it takes practice to learn the technique and takes a few minutes to setup in a new room. If you have a pink noise generator, this is much easier to do.
 
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#15
You might get better results from an EQ with more bands on it so you can fine tune. But with your current gear, I would start with everything flat and adjust at the amp first, then fine tune at the preamp. Try cutting any offending frequencies first, and then slightly boost anything that is lacking.
 
#16
The "problem" with the EQ in most bass preamps is that they are designed to shape the sound of your bass, not to "fix" issues. This means the frequency bands are pretty wide for a more musical effect. (I have a WD800. It has an extensive EQ section. I love it!) But this does not help the OP. They are not saying they don't like their tone, but that the room sometimes interferes with it. This is where eq solutions more surgical than can be provided by the bass amp come in handy.
 
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#20
GBassLondon said:
Bit of an update - have managed to get a good tone - main problem is after a certain volume the treble gets quite oppressive (but is ok in mix) and it’s quite unruly. Thinking maybe a change of amp, cab or both. I think Orange Bass Terrors are quite naturally thick, maybe a solid state amp might suit me more?
Click to expand...

Turning up the mid control tends to allow quite a bit of treble through. If you want a balanced sound, start with the Mids between 3:00 and 5:00 (fully CW). The Treble should be fully CCW are just barely cracked open. I suggest starting with the Bass at about 9:00. Flattest response is actually with the Bass control even lower. Turning up the Bass or Treble more results in a mid scoop.

This tone stack model should be fairly close to the way your amp works. Play around with it to get a better idea of what is going on.

TSC in the web (guitarscience.net)

I used the component values from the original Terror Bass tone stack. I don't have a schematic for the Mk2, but the tone stack should be similar if not identical.
 

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