EQing with dirt pedals?

[FretNoMore]

Just wondering what you guys do, if anything, in terms of EQ when using overdrive or fuzz pedals; they add a lot of higher frequencies and to my ears this tends to make the sound thinner and/or harsher rather than the more hairy/dark/powerful that I'd like to hear. I've messed around with EQ for a bit but simply cutting the top off doesn't cut it, so to speak, as that also takes some clarity away and makes the sound muddier. Any thoughts on this?

 

[simenandreas]

Try adding a compressor to the overdrive. That will even out the sound making it fuller without to harsh

 

[jumblemind]

For this issue TB'er caeman had Max at [sfx] pedals build him a "microscreaminator" LPF, sort of the flip side of a microthumpinator. What I have done in the past is add an EQ pedal to certain fuzzes and dirts to even them out, tweaking the sliders to find the right setting.

Personally speaking, if one of my pedals requires another pedal to sound good, it's not going to be my pedal for long. I now have a preamp type overdrive for mild dirt (Ginger) and a fuzz pedal with enough options to EQ itself (Musket).

 

[bongomania]

The rolloff of highs provided by a tweeterless cab is what most people find most satisfying. The difference between that and using an EQ is in whether the EQ has the same slope available.

 

[Crater]

Most fuzz and overdrive pedals purposely limit bass response going into the distortion circuit - especially if they're meant for guitar use. The tubescreamer is a good example of this, but most distortions are made this way to some degree. To much bass into the distortion circuit sounds "flubby" A clean blend can help, so could boosting the bass frequencies after the fuzz.

 

[FretNoMore]

I believe I read an Ampeg 8x10 starts to roll off around 5kHz, as does the [sfx] Screaminator (how alike the slope is I don't know).

Would a DI with cab simulation do a similar rolloff?

 

[topo morto]

Distortion is clipping, and clipping adds highs, so this is the most common problem when using distortion on bass. One common solution is to blend in a bit of the clean signal with the distorted signal - or, for the sound you describe, probably more like the other way round - just add a touch of the distorted signal to a basically clean signal to add the necessary 'hair'. If your pedal doesn't have a blend built in, you can get one like the boss LS-2 or Xotic X-blender.

A rarer but better way (for me) is to use a crossover to apply distortion more to the high frequency band of the signal, and leave the low end unprocessed. [sfx] make one of these.

 

[LongHairFreak]

I've often thought of doing the Xover thing for my dirt ([SFX] has the X&M to do this), for I've not been very satisfied w/a typical clean blend, so I just do the tweeterless cab and pull back highs.

Topo Morto, can you say what your Xover point is? I was told by a reputable TBer that dirt doesn't even effect under 100Hz.

Distortion is clipping, and clipping adds highs, so this is the most common problem when using distortion on bass. One common solution is to blend in a bit of the clean signal with the distorted signal - or, for the sound you describe, probably more like the other way round - just add a touch of the distorted signal to a basically clean signal to add the necessary 'hair'. If your pedal doesn't have a blend built in, you can get one like the boss LS-2 or Xotic X-blender.

A rarer but better way (for me) is to use a crossover to apply distortion more to the high frequency band of the signal, and leave the low end unprocessed. [sfx] make one of these.

 

[bongomania]

Clipping is caused by all frequencies, but it is heard as higher frequencies.

 

[topo morto]

I've often thought of doing the Xover thing for my dirt ([SFX] has the X&M to do this), for I've not been very satisfied w/a typical clean blend, so I just do the tweeterless cab and pull back highs.

Topo Morto, can you say what your Xover point is?

The X&M (which I have) unfortunately doesn't have any marking on the knob, you just set by ear. If I get a chance I might do a clip and a recording so I could do some spectral analysis of where I have set it. Obviously I play about setting it in different places but I would guess that I'm setting it in the mid hundreds of Hz on average?

I was told by a reputable TBer that dirt doesn't even effect under 100Hz.

Maybe kind of true in the sense that if you take a clean signal and dirty output signal from a distortion box and filter them down to 100Hz, you'll just hear a rumble in both cases...

But not true when it comes to input. If you take a 30Hz sine wave and clip it(i.e. apply dirt ), You will potentially get harmonics generated at multiples of 30Hz (60Hz, 120... 6000Hz....).. Dirt most certainly has an effect on signals under 100Hz. Effectively it converts low frequency energy into high frequencies, hence the common complaint that dirt leads to low-end loss. Of course it may well only be a loss proportionately speaking, depending on the level of post-clipping amplification, but it's still perceived as a loss.

Even worse, the harmonics that are spawned from a bass signal during the clipping process tend to turn into a somewhat buzzy, woolly, uninteresting (IMO) sound. What I often want is to have extra harmonics generated only on top of the higher-frequency components of the original signal.


There is another way I use my X&M - if using my mammoth, which is so woolly and buzzy it's good, I put the X&M after the fuzz just as a kind of 2-band shelving tone control.

 

[MotorCityWest]

This is the best pedal I own - as far as being able to dial in different sounds by itself. Try it before or after dirt/distortion in your chain for different results. Really gives fine control over effects and can really get the bass back and also remove any highs that you don't need....or add a bunch more and go all crazy.

MXR 10 band eq
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/mxr-m-108-ten-band-graphic-eq

 

[jkleban]

This is a right on topic for my question..... when I record using both a DI'ed signal and a mic'ed up cabinet, the clean sound is DI'ed and the FUZZ BASS goes to the amp... recording this way, gives me the bottom end fullness from the DI'ed signal but very little control of the tone of the FUZZ mic'ed up signal... recording and EQing the fuzz channel isn't the same as EQing the FUZZ signal pre-amp to precisely shape the tone of the fuzz signal.

I am looking for a recommendation on what might be a great graphic EQ to insert into the signal chain going into the bass amp? In the old days, I have seen bassists with very large, stand alone EQs for this and can't find anything like that for my bass rig.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jim