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Double Bass EQ's...can't decide between graphic or parametric

#21
JimmyM said:
Cool replies, Dr. and Mr. Thx! Doc, I'm 100% with you on the "flat response/never boost" mentality. If I'm getting the sound I want, I couldn't care less if I'm boosting or cutting. But that is certainly good advice regarding para vs graphic. I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the graphic attractive in a way unless it didn't have the freqs I want as centers.
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See, that's just the thing. You don't really know what center frequencies you need until you're in the situation. In order to be covered with a graphic, you'll need a bunch. As I said, if you're paying for quality, then that typically means wasted $$$. Also, keep in mind that graphic devices almost always are designed with filters that are NOT constant-Q. That is, the bandwidth changes with the boost/cut. Still, it's true that if you get one with plenty of bands, you should be able to do just fine. It's just not what is, IMO, the optimal choice in terms of ease of use, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness. Truth be told, I use an EA Doubler these days and have been satisfied with its rather conventional controls. Because of the genre, makeup of groups with which I play, and the venues we're typically in, the tone-shaping I need is not very complex.
 
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#22
In a way the graphic is easier to use on stage bc you have an instant visualisation of what its doing by looking at it BUT I find the parametric approach better for problem solving bc you can hear the problem frequency, set a boost, sweep the frequency until you match it, then notch it out. IMO this is quicker and easier than fiddling with sliders. The drawback here is that its sometimes difficult to do on a noisy/hectic soundcheck and impossible once the gig starts.

A simple eq like your VT might be able to do the job fine but you'll find that its a little more heavy handed on your tone than something like the Empress Para where you can not only find the frequency but adjust the width of the Q.

I've just yesterday got my hands on an Fdeck HPF and now see what all the fuss is about. That'll be my fair weather friend on non-troublesome stages with the Rev Solo but will always have the Empress Para stashed in my sack when things get tricky.
 
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#23
drurb said:
See, that's just the thing. You don't really know what center frequencies you need until you're in the situation. In order to be covered with a graphic, you'll need a bunch. As I said, if you're paying for quality, then that typically means wasted $$$. Also, keep in mind that graphic devices almost always are designed with filters that are NOT constant-Q. That is, the bandwidth changes with the boost/cut. Still, it's true that if you get one with plenty of bands, you should be able to do just fine. It's just not what is, IMO, the optimal choice in terms of ease of use, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness. Truth be told, I use an EA Doubler these days and have been satisfied with its rather conventional controls. Because of the genre, makeup of groups with which I play, and the venues we're typically in, the tone-shaping I need is not very complex.
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And that's another thing with me...I don't think my needs are very complex either. I just need to bring out the slaps better and not make the upper mids and low highs so prominent. Room adjustments I can always make, because that's low end related and it's not a problem for me so much no matter what EQ I use.
 
#26
Until I can get enough dough together for a Headway pre, the fdeck hpf (series 1) and boss bass graphic eq are doing me just fine. New standard Cleveland with FC pick-up. The frequencies of the boss just work for what I need, right now at least! A good little tool, that eq!
 
#27
JimmyM said:
Thanks for the tips on those products. Wish there was info on frequency centers for the PZ-Pre, but a sweepable mid would be nice and might even make the treble control somewhat irrelevant....
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Not sure why they keep moving that info on the Radial site - it's really hard to find when you want it...
From the manual on my PZ-Pre: Bass is at 75 Hz, Mid sweeps from 82Hz - 5.6 kHz, treble is 7.5kHz (that's all +/- 12 dB) (oh and the bass/treble are shelves). The notch, which I use quite a bit, is sweepable from 56 - 220 Hz. Unfortunately you *can't* kick the EQ in and out, which is one of the things I don't like about it.
 
#29
UPDATE: Done re-evaluating the need for tweeter frequencies on slap upright. Got to listen to it through a couple good PA's over the past few days, and the VT Deluxe is getting it done without them. One thing the VTD does extremely well is imitate the sound of an SVT with the ultra-hi switch on, and that seems to be the sound that works. A little intense with all that treble when you first hear it by itself, but in a mix it sounds great. Thought about maybe scaling down a bit and getting a regular VT pedal dedicated to upright, but I'd like two programs for upright so I can dial back those highs when I don't need them. Plus even though I prefer my separate pedals for dirt and fuzz on electric because there's not as much compression as the VT, it seems like nobody skips compression in any PA's I play through, so I may as well not sweat it and enjoy bringing one pedal instead of 4.
 
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#32
Empress Para sounds great, is very flexible, dynamic in range, church quiet, plus it has the independent boost circuit. Down sides are that the graphics suck, and Empress doesn't provide a proprietary 18v power supply. You have to sift through a chart on their web page which tells you which brand works, or doesn't work. Which makes you wonder if it wouldn't be easy to damage the unit if you choose a power supply they don't approve of. That would be easy to do. Mine took a dump even though I used one of the power supplies that was approved.

The Whirlwind Bass 10 Band EQ is super hi fi, and is designed with constant Q. More powerful and musical than many eq circuits on amps, really.
 
#34
MR PC said:
Empress Para sounds great, is very flexible, dynamic in range, church quiet, plus it has the independent boost circuit. Down sides are that the graphics suck, and Empress doesn't provide a proprietary 18v power supply. You have to sift through a chart on their web page which tells you which brand works, or doesn't work. Which makes you wonder if it wouldn't be easy to damage the unit if you choose a power supply they don't approve of. That would be easy to do. Mine took a dump even though I used one of the power supplies that was approved.

The Whirlwind Bass 10 Band EQ is super hi fi, and is designed with constant Q. More powerful and musical than many eq circuits on amps, really.
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What do you mean by saying the graphics suck on the Empress? Referring to the style or the durability, or are you saying that the frequency markers (for example) are not close to reality? Thanks.
 
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#35
The graphics on the Empress are small, poorly painted on, and hard to read (tiny thin black script on a blue background.) The freqs are very accurate, great sounding pedal, I think I just got a lemon. I would agree with Brian Rost though, the graphic is much easier to adjust on the fly. The Whirlwind graphic eq pedals are excellent. You will pay more than the MXR..but it is well worth it.
 
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#36
MR PC said:
The graphics on the Empress are small, poorly painted on, and hard to read (tiny thin black script on a blue background.) The freqs are very accurate, great sounding pedal, I think I just got a lemon. I would agree with Brian Rost though, the graphic is much easier to adjust on the fly. The Whirlwind graphic eq pedals are excellent. You will pay more than the MXR..but it is well worth it.
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A graphic is, in a sense, easier to adjust but is, for reasons I posted, an inferior tool for the job we typically want to do. IMO, it's worth learning to use a parametric.
 
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#37
Being more of an experimenter and hobbyist than a serious player I may end up with both a graphic and a parametric to noodle around with. TB'ers are such a great resource. Without this forum I probably would have naturally defaulted to the MXR - major well know brand, etc. Never would have guessed the Whirlwind to maybe be a better choice.
 
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#38
I just got the Empress Para-EQ and just love it with my upright. I use the RMI basswitch for doubling, and it is the bomb for that job. But my old French bass has a few resonances that really get uneven through the amp, so the Empress parametric is the perfect tool to notch them out. Really a great box -I wonder if they will ever mod it and make it into a bass preamp? Just needs a mute button really.
 
#39
Doner Designs said:
Being more of an experimenter and hobbyist than a serious player I may end up with both a graphic and a parametric to noodle around with. TB'ers are such a great resource. Without this forum I probably would have naturally defaulted to the MXR - major well know brand, etc. Never would have guessed the Whirlwind to maybe be a better choice.
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Good idea to get both. I've been using parameric eq on my uprights since the '80's when I found the T.C. Electronic pedal. Even after all of that time, it's still not always easy in the moment to sweep freqs and adjust on the fly. The strength of the fully parametric eq is that you can dial in a very specific freq, and choose how much or little the boost/cut of that freq is isolated from adjoining freqs. Since my Empress died, I went back to the trusty old T.C. ...it is a sweeter and broader sounding circuit, even being 30 years old. I'd suspect that the components for the T.C. simply aren't available anymore. Empress did a great job copying it, and adding a few features that make it have it's own voice. My complaint is the dicey power supply use for the Empress. And also, the adjustment pots on the Empress are easily bumped out of the chosen fixed position. The old T.C. runs on a 9 volt battery, or 9-27v dc power supply. The pots have a firmer feel, adjustments aren't bumped out of position as easily as the Empress. Overall, the T.C. is more gig friendly, and a smaller footprint too.

The MXR is a fine graphic eq..again, if you can find one in good working order, the old version with the ac cord has a great sound. But the new ones are very powerful tools and easy to find. I was surprised at how good this Whirlwind Graphic sounds though. Very easy to use, and the smallest adjustments are very effective.
 
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#40
drurb said:
...IMO, it's worth learning to use a parametric.
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I was fortunate to find a Fishman Dual Parametric on eBay. How can I learn to use it optimally with my AI Focus Series III for tone control?

The tone controls on the Focus are as follows:
Bass: shelving type, +-15 dB @ 60Hz
Mid: +-15 dB @ 650 Hz
Treble: shelving type, +-25 @ 10kHz

Trying to figure out optimal frequency points and octave widths to essentially replace the single mid control with low-mid and high-mid controls. I thought I'd try to replicate the frequency points of the AI Flex preamp (+-12dB @ 50, 250, 1200, and 8kHz). I currently have the two bands set at roughly 250 and 1200 with a one-octave (on each side of the center freq) spread; seems like those settings should result in a pretty even distribution, leaving the AI's mid control flat. (Probably a bit short on the high end, which isn't of much concern.) Thoughts?

Also, where on the frequency spectrum does bass "punch" exist to push through a 17-piece big band? Hard to tell from where I stand.

Thx, guys.

EDIT: Clarify octave spread
 
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