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Double Bass EQ's...can't decide between graphic or parametric

JimmyM

JimmyM

Apr 11, 2005
127,257
125,180
Plymouth NC
Disclosures
Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
#1
Bass is a 2005 Upton Hawkes with Clef Rev Solo II pickup. Love it. But I double on electric, which means I need a separate EQ for setting DB levels and tones. For the past couple years, I've been using a Barber Linden, a simple 2-band Baxandall-style EQ, and was happy with it until I discovered that my slaps aren't popping out as loud as I would like. I boost treble with the Linden, and it boosts the treble pretty nicely but it also ends up boosting between 1 and 3k, and I dislike it with a red hot passion. I'd like something that will boost 3k and up as needed and not force me into boosting the gank frequencies. I have an old Alesis Micro EQ that I dig in some ways, but I don't like the controls being on the front panel, and I use a 1-Spot to power my pedals and wirelesses and don't like having to use Alesis' proprietary power supply.

So I'm looking at EQ's and can't decide whether I want parametric or graphic. I know most DB players use parametric, but graphics are usually cheaper, and the RSII requires no impedance matching. I don't mind paying more to get better, but I want it to be relatively small with controls on top, and I want something that won't dull the awesome tone of my DI (A-Designs REDDI) with compression and distortion.

Monday I'll probably take it to the local stores and try out some stuff, but I wanted to get opinions of stuff to look at first. Mark Robertson from the Legendary Shack Shakers suggests the Empress ParaEQ, but I wanted to see what everyone else is using before I go plunk down cash. The MXR graphic EQ's kind of appeal to me as well, especially since I used to have a 6-Band that I really dug in the 70's and 80's, but that was on electric, not uprig...er...DB ;) 31 band graphics are right out, though, since I so don't want to tote around a rack again.

So throw some names out at me, please, since I'm woefully behind the EQ curve. All I'll ask is to please bear in mind my likes, dislikes, wants and needs, and don't just recommend something that won't fill the bill because you like it. TIA!
 
#2
I like Robertson's advice, but I'll play the opposite side of the net and suggest the Whirlwind Bass Ten. I've no idea if this is appropriate for DB, it just came to mind. Perhaps beg, borrow, steal a graphic and a parametric for a shoot-out.



[EDIT] Nevermind, the highest freq-slider is 3k, I don't think this is what you need.
Sorry mang.

Maybe the Whirlwind Perfect 10 – meant for guitars and keyboards, but has sliders at 2k 4k 8k and 16k?
 
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#6
sa_eq_panel.jpg


Source Audio Programmable EQ might fit the bill?
 
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#7
Just realized I made a funny...

"So throw some names out at me, please, since I'm woefully behind the EQ curve."

EQ curve...get it??? BWAHAHAHA!!!

No?

Anyway, FF, you're correct that I don't want a 31 band, but thx for the info, Ric. Saw one on Ebay for $90 currently, but I'd like to keep it as small or smaller than the Linden.

The Source looks doable. One question, though...there are 5 indicator lights for each freq band. Does that mean you've got only 5 preset volume settings for each band, or will it recognize several settings within each volume setting?
 
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#8
EQ curve... :rolleyes: Stop banding about and get on the level.
Such a freq...

http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/toolblox/programmable_eq.php

PROGRAMMABLE EQ FEATURES & SPECIFICATIONS
  • +/- 18dB range over seven frequency bands.
  • Four independent programmable user presets easily recalled via the Footswitch.
  • Octave Extend Function: optimizes the EQ for bass with an additional freq band at 62Hz.
  • Small Footprint: A compact, rugged, cast aluminum housing.
  • 12dB of clean boost.
  • Auto-scrolling function: automatically scrolls through all four presets to create unique and dramatic effects similar to sequencer or tremolo units.
  • Hardwire “True” Bypass: utilizes a small-signal relay for improved reliability and remote switching capabilities.
  • MIDI input: recall presets, engage/bypass remotely via MIDI.
  • State-of-the-art DSP — our proprietary 56-bit Digital Signal Processor, the SA601 and crystal-clear 24-bit converters.
  • Dimensions: 4.5 in/11.4cm (Length) x 2.5 in/6.4cm (width) x 2 in/5.1cm (height)
  • Runs on a 9V battery (included) or power supply (not included).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
From the manual...
"Encoder: The main knob on the unit is an encoder style control that allows incremental up or down level changes to the selected frequency band in 1dB steps. The maximum range is +18dB and the minimum is -18dB for each frequency band."

So, you're green. It'll recognise several settings despite there being only 5 LED indicators.
 
#9
i sometimes use a boss bass eq pedal for upright. i like it alot actually. adds a nice thickness when used right. id imagine any other graphic eq pedal might be fine also, but i've never tried any others. aguilar tone hammer comes with me to every gig however...
 
#11
Feral Feline said:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
From the manual...
"Encoder: The main knob on the unit is an encoder style control that allows incremental up or down level changes to the selected frequency band in 1dB steps. The maximum range is +18dB and the minimum is -18dB for each frequency band."

So, you're green. It'll recognise several settings despite there being only 5 LED indicators.
Click to expand...
Cool...it just made the short list. The digital part scares me a tiny bit ;) but 4 settings would be nice to have if I ever wanted to switch more than the electric and upright, and it could do some tonal things that might be cool. Thinking it's going to shake out to a dogfight between the MXR 10 band, the ParaEQ, the Boss graphic (the frequency centers for the highs aren't bad for upright) and this.
 
#12
A good parametric circuit will be far better in practice for your purposes than will a graphic tone-shaping circuit. The RS II does well so long as the input impedance is 1-10 Mohm. Remember, it's not impedance matching you're after. :)
 
#13
I will have to agree with the Empress pedal also. The fact that it has a "Q" switch is what sets it apart. It can use 9 to 24volts. It is amazingly quiet also. It can boost the area you need and you still have two more bands to notch filter or tone shape. It really is a swiss army knife of tone.
 
#14
Jimmy, the old TC Electronic Parametric EQ works beautifully. 2 bands of fully parametric eq, a master treble control that works 12db +/- in the range you desire, and master volume that is 12db +/- and very accurate in the sweep. 9-27 v powered, long battery life, built like a tank. LOTS of headroom available with this one. Very sweet 1 meg input, and excellent buffering, line driving. Studio quiet too. I have 3, been using them since the 80's without any problems. I don't get why TC hasn't reissued this unit. The Fishman Parametric is real good to if you can find one. There is a big-shot player guy around here who always like to shout out the Fishman is superior to the TC because of some minute detail. But the truth is they are both excellent pedals.

The Headway Preamp is the one to use these days if you need something new, lots of threads around here on that one. That's what I'd buy if I wasn't happy with my TC's.

I doubt that there is a graphic pedal anywhere for bass that is going to work as well as a parametric.
 
#15
Jimmy, since you're probably going to get into a situation (I imagine) where you'd have to double anyway...why not something like the Radial Bassbone? Not that new one with the overdrive channel, but the original. Or check out the newer/smaller versions of the PZ-Pre (the DI and Deluxe). I know you said you don't feel you *need* the impedance loading with the RSII, but it's defeat-able on the PZ-Pre. Yes, their on the large size, and the extra power supply is a PITA some days, but they do sound good.
I'd also second the Boss EQ...it's not as transparent, but pretty musical sounding especially when boosting frequencies like you're intending, IME.
 
#16
moles said:
Jimmy, since you're probably going to get into a situation (I imagine) where you'd have to double anyway...why not something like the Radial Bassbone? Not that new one with the overdrive channel, but the original. Or check out the newer/smaller versions of the PZ-Pre (the DI and Deluxe). I know you said you don't feel you *need* the impedance loading with the RSII, but it's defeat-able on the PZ-Pre. Yes, their on the large size, and the extra power supply is a PITA some days, but they do sound good.
I'd also second the Boss EQ...it's not as transparent, but pretty musical sounding especially when boosting frequencies like you're intending, IME.
Click to expand...
+1 on the radial pz pre. its really a great unit. you get 3 bands with a sweepable mid, but i dont remember if you can punch in and out an eq curve like you're wanting to like with the boss pedal, you can do this with the tone hammer pedal however, but, if you're good on pre amps and only need the eq then just buy the eq
 
#17
Thanks for the tips on those products. Wish there was info on frequency centers for the PZ-Pre, but a sweepable mid would be nice and might even make the treble control somewhat irrelevant.

In the meantime, I busted out my old VT Bass Deluxe for today's gig, and it worked quite well, I thought. Been a while since I used it on upright, but while it does roll off highs past 4.5k similar to an Ampeg 810 and it has some inherent compression in it that I don't care for on electric bass, I love Ampeg 810's, I don't notice the compression nearly as much as I do with the electric, and I've never been a big tweeter guy anyway. I've had a few slappers tell me you can't get a good slap sound without tweeter freqs, but while I'm willing to re-evaluate the need for tweeter freqs, I used to use the VTD for upright in the past and never felt like my slaps were lacking. We'll see, though.

But since we're on a thing about para vs graphic already, I'd like some more insight about why so many folks prefer the para over the graphic. Is it quality of sound? Is it ease of use? Is it both? Is it something else entirely? Will he stop asking questions sometime tonight?
 
#18
Well, my experience with eq pedals has been that the parametric eq's are generally more flexible since the freqs on a graphic eq are fixed. On a good para eq you can sweep the freqs and adjust the amplitude of the boost or cut and how much they effect the neighboring freqs. If you want to get a 31 band graphic or the like, it's a little different story, but that's rack mount, and actually fussier in use than a good parametric. It's really easy for those little eq sliders to get bumped around when you least want or expect it!
 
#19
JimmyM said:
But since we're on a thing about para vs graphic already, I'd like some more insight about why so many folks prefer the para over the graphic. Is it quality of sound? Is it ease of use? Is it both? Is it something else entirely? Will he stop asking questions sometime tonight?
Click to expand...

It's because it's typically the right tool for the job. Let's dispense with the notion that the goal is "flat" frequency response at the output of the cab. You won't achieve it and, even if you could, room interactions will make such an achievement all but useless. Furthermore, I would argue that, even with room interactions considered, that's not what one wants in reality. Most of us know that once you start playing with other instruments, it's often desirable to emphasize certain spectral regions in order to "cut through." This could be a much longer discussion but I'll leave it there.

Assuming that you have a reasonably good rig (including pickup, electronics, and cab), then the primary task is typically to adjust the response of the rig in order to compensate for the room. That compensation involves boosting or cutting select spectral bands. (By the way, the often-repeated "rule" that a cut is more desirable than a boost is a myth). Assuming you can recognize by listening which bands need alteration, it's a fairly straightforward matter to dial the parametric filter to that frequency and then adjust the bandwidth (inversely related to Q) and gain (up or down). Now, as MR PC points out, given enough bands on a graphic device, you might be able to accomplish the same thing. The problems with that approach, in addition to what he mentioned, are 1) the cost of having all those filters on a high-quality graphic device is often wasted and 2) "ganging" filters to achieve a cut or boost across multiple bands can leave you with a somewhat ragged response (although it's not likely to really be much of an issue in practice).

A parametric allows you to have three or four high-quality adjustable filters that will pretty much do the trick in any room or venue. When I used a parametric, I had two bands that stayed put most of the time and a couple I would adjust on the fly. The key to using any tone-shaping device is learning to identify frequency bands. I posted something a while back on that. If I can find it, then I'll come back here and edit with the link.

Edit: Here it is. :)
 
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#20
Cool replies, Dr. and Mr. Thx! Doc, I'm 100% with you on the "flat response/never boost" mentality. If I'm getting the sound I want, I couldn't care less if I'm boosting or cutting. But that is certainly good advice regarding para vs graphic. I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the graphic attractive in a way unless it didn't have the freqs I want as centers.
 

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