Double Bass Ergo megathread part II

[kozmikyak]

The thin plastic film pickups I tried don't seem to work well, the pressure of the bridge makes them fail rapidly. So Friday I am putting the same pickups on the new one as I already have on the old.

Not a flaw of the instrument, rather another experiment that didn't work as.expected.

 

[kozmikyak]

Transplanted my usual in phase + out of phase pickup sandwich into the newer e-cello today, with the help of my dad. Made maple spacers to separate the layers this time, used a dremel tool to carve relief for the solder bumps on the pickup elements.

Sounds wonderful. This is what I've been working up to all this time.

 

[colicab]

Hello my friends,

I'm having a 4 string built for me right now. I still can't believe I'm getting an EUB with my custom specs built for me for the little amount of money I'm paying. I'm very grateful that Jesse, the builder, is totally open-minded and offers these wonderful instruments at such affordable prices. He has been a joy to work with so far, and has offered me flexible payment options, has been very prompt with correspondence and has genuinely cracked me up with every message he sends! Hilarious, kind dude. This is rare in the world of custom instruments, or custom anything. Send him an email! Please buy from him!

 

[FellowBass]

I just got my Ergo at Christmas (4 string) and I love it so far! My first EUB and seems like the perfect one to learn upright techniques on. Picked it up from Jesse in person in Chattanooga, couldn't have been nicer, showed me around his shop and let me choose from a couple of different ones he had built to my specs.

Great bass so far, will update more when I actually know what I'm doing on it some more. Subscribed to the thread...

 

[kozmikyak]

Just about to go on stage at Lutsen ski resort with my newest Ergo. But I now play lead on it in this band, rather than bass. Another project has taken over my cello-bass time.

 

[RenegadeJazz]

So after months and months of looking, drooling, and trying desperately not to think about how I didn't have an Ergo,

IT ARRIVED!

4-string Burst finish, and I am thrilled beyond belief.

Beautiful tone even unplugged, enough volume to practice with a metronome, putting my ear to the wood is an absolute delight as I can hear the whole body resonate.

Not that it really needs saying again, but Jesse Blue is an absolute legend - I am operating on a rather tight timeframe as I am visiting family here and head back to the UK on Tuesday, as it got closer to my departure date I started to worry that ****ups would happen with shipping, and after communicating my worries with Jesse he pushed ahead and finished my bass almost a week faster than we had originally suggested, as a result it came in 5 days before my departure date (with an inevitable delay thrown in by USPS).

What an incredibly beautiful and elegant instrument it is, better by miles than the $1500 Aria I had borrowed from a friend in london.

I can just see the open mouths when I take it back to the UK and show it to my double bass friends and colleagues.

"It was HOW MUCH?!"

If you are wondering whether to order one, do it. There is literally no better instrument of its kind out there, regardless of price. It puts every other EUB I've played to shame, in terms of acoustic feel and just sheer beauty.

Add to that that it has been custom made for me, and me alone, by a guy who both seriously knows his **** and loves the instruments he makes.

What can I say. 10/10 for quality, workmanship, customer service. I don't see myself upgrading this bass, ever, and it's going to be a seriously boss acoustic upright that would make me even consider switching.

That'll have to wait until I can get together £2000 or so, I don't see any instrument cheaper than that holding a candle to this beautiful piece of Honduran mahogany I have sitting next to me.

Right! Walking practice time!

It's just such a pleasure to play, loving every second of it.

 

[kozmikyak]

My second Ergo cello behaved quite nicely at my show on Saturday. I got to do lots of screaming leads on it. My signature now contains 3 songs from that show. I'm afraid it's more lead work these days instead of bass playing, though I exercise my bass chops in another band.

It's amazing to have an instrument in my hands that can go from Bb (below the B on a 5-string bass) to the high violin range, without using any pitch-shifting tricks, balanced well across the entire range. With the dual pickup system I installed, I can literally go from doing a bass line into an arco guitar-style solo and back, using just a footswitch on my Pod HD500x to switch between them. In fact, if I want the more "upright" sounding bass tone, rather than the more "electric" bass tone, I don't even have to do that.

Finding this instrument at such a reasonable price was amazing in itself; what I didn't initially understand is that I was also enlisting the services of a luthier with sufficient imagination to do something unorthodox for me, and to work with me to make it as excellent as possible.

Starting to record some of my gigs, I have to wait a bit to get one that's more bass-oriented.

 

[gscroggin]

Starting to record some of my gigs, I have to wait a bit to get one that's more bass-oriented.

Just checked out the audio that you've got in your signature...that arco is pretty off the hook! Nice job

 

[kozmikyak]

The bass line is the electric cello through an in-phase pair of pickups under the bridge feet. The arco is through an out-of-phase pair of pickups under the bridge feet. I use the same type of pickup elements that were originally installed, but sandwiched them and hooked them up to a stereo jack so I can switch between the two configurations with a footswitch on my pedalboard, instead of flipping a switch like one does on the NS Design instruments.

 

[clokwise]

Hi guys! Been lurking reading through all the posts. There is a lot of info and I plan on reading through it all so I apologize for jumping ahead if this has already been answered. But here goes.

I've been an electric bass player for quite some time now and I recently picked up a 5 (4) string Ergo on my local craigslist for dirt cheap. I say 5 (4) because it was a 5 string but he converted it for a 4. It seems to be done well and no shoddy work so no complaints there, I wanted the 4 anyway. I got it for a steal so I figured it was worth it. I one day want to get into playing a full size upright but don't have the cash to drop on one yet. I thought this might be a good starting point to make sure I like the feel of it. Is that bad logic?

Also what strings would you guys recommend for a newbie on one of these? I know next to nothing about double bass strings. I just would like a good all around sounding string thats easy to play on, since I don't know what I'm shooting for I don't have specific needs...yet The string that are on it pretty garbage. The low 2 sound ok-ish, but the guy has put weedeater string on the high 2, he gave me a long explanation as to why but I don't remember it all. The weedeater strings are quiet, flimsy, and will not stay tuned no matter I do. They gotta go!

Thanks for your help ahead of time!

 

[gscroggin]

Hi guys! Been lurking reading through all the posts. There is a lot of info and I plan on reading through it all so I apologize for jumping ahead if this has already been answered. But here goes.

I've been an electric bass player for quite some time now and I recently picked up a 5 (4) string Ergo on my local craigslist for dirt cheap. I say 5 (4) because it was a 5 string but he converted it for a 4. It seems to be done well and no shoddy work so no complaints there, I wanted the 4 anyway. I got it for a steal so I figured it was worth it. I one day want to get into playing a full size upright but don't have the cash to drop on one yet. I thought this might be a good starting point to make sure I like the feel of it. Is that bad logic?

Also what strings would you guys recommend for a newbie on one of these? I know next to nothing about double bass strings. I just would like a good all around sounding string thats easy to play on, since I don't know what I'm shooting for I don't have specific needs...yet The string that are on it pretty garbage. The low 2 sound ok-ish, but the guy has put weedeater string on the high 2, he gave me a long explanation as to why but I don't remember it all. The weedeater strings are quiet, flimsy, and will not stay tuned no matter I do. They gotta go!

Thanks for your help ahead of time!

I think your logic is sound from an investment sense. IMO there are definitely certain things that you won't learn with starting on an EUB to later transition to a real DB, but I also don't think that should prevent you from moving forward. After all, they're both just instruments.

With regards to strings, there are 1000000 threads here on TB on the topic. That said, depending on the config of your Ergo, you may be limited to certain types of strings due to the bridge and tuner design. Some of us have modded our Ergo's to allow for "real" DB gauge/length strings, which typically requires different/modded tuners and string locking mechanism (to deal with length and ball end). IME a good general string for EUBs is the D'addario Helicore series, of which there are a couple flavors. Good all around strings to get started with and not saying they shouldn't/couldn't be what you settle with long term either, they are definitely not a "starter" string. It's just that for many peeps strings tend to be an endless endeavor, just like pedals, amp/cab tones, etc.

 

[clokwise]

I think your logic is sound from an investment sense. IMO there are definitely certain things that you won't learn with starting on an EUB to later transition to a real DB, but I also don't think that should prevent you from moving forward. After all, they're both just instruments.

With regards to strings, there are 1000000 threads here on TB on the topic. That said, depending on the config of your Ergo, you may be limited to certain types of strings due to the bridge and tuner design. Some of us have modded our Ergo's to allow for "real" DB gauge/length strings, which typically requires different/modded tuners and string locking mechanism (to deal with length and ball end). IME a good general string for EUBs is the D'addario Helicore series, of which there are a couple flavors. Good all around strings to get started with though and not saying they shouldn't be what you settle with long term either. It's just that for many strings tend to be an endless endeavor for many, just like pedals, amp/cab tones, etc.

Thanks that is helpful. I did read through some of the posts on here about strings, but since I don't know specifically what I need from it yet I thought I'd ask (at the risk of getting yelled at for beating a dead horse) but thanks for the suggestion I will look into those.

 

[clokwise]

I guess another silly question is, am I looking for 3/4 scale strings for the Ergo?

 

[gscroggin]

I guess another silly question is, am I looking for 3/4 scale strings for the Ergo?

Typically, but again it depends on the config of your ergo. I believe some companies make EUB length strings, like for the NS basses, etc. With the real DB strings on my current Ergo, I created a tail piece / retention device on the back side so I had the flexibility of using a variety of strings. I also needed to file two of my tuner heads wider. You can see some pics here:

Link Removed

http://www.trya.us/gear/basses/ergo/Ergo5-6.jpg

 

[chuck norriss]

Actually finished with the second E-cello much sooner than expected. Seeing double:

View attachment 376319

The two instruments fit nicely in a 61-key keyboard case, with shoulder mounts and accessories:

View attachment 376322

Using some Kohl's "luxury bath towels" to protect them from each other and from the shoulder mounts and bows. Want to research better dual-instrument case options but this will do for now.

Great

 

[clokwise]

The 1/2 Corelli have also been suggested to me as a great string to get me started. They come in at about $60. Anyone have any suggestions or feelings towards those for beginning on an Ergo?

 

[chuck norriss]

That's what I had very nice strings good tension good sounding.

 

[gscroggin]

The 1/2 Corelli have also been suggested to me as a great string to get me started. They come in at about $60. Anyone have any suggestions or feelings towards those for beginning on an Ergo?

I currently have Corelli's on my DB and have been very happy, especially with the play-ability in regards to my own dexterity. The only thing I've noticed is less overall volume vs. other strings I've used, but that likely wouldn't be a factor on EUB.

 

[jamspanic]

The thin plastic film pickups I tried don't seem to work well, the pressure of the bridge makes them fail rapidly. So Friday I am putting the same pickups on the new one as I already have on the old.

Not a flaw of the instrument, rather another experiment that didn't work as.expected.

Hi All-- newbie Ergo owner/Talkbass member here. Glad to join the discussion! I bought a customized 4 string, did the pearl tom-mount mod to increase stability, and am playing through a GK MBS 112. It sounds great, plays very well. Overall I'm happy with the purchase and my experience with Jesse.

I recently removed the strings to have a look at the bridge, and saw that the piezo elements make direct contact with the bridge feet, but are embedded in foam on the side that contacts the body. Kozmikyak, or anyone else, ever try removing the foam to see how the sound changes? I imagine that the body's vibration would come through better, but the foam must be there for a reason...maybe the pressure from the bridge is too much, or there is a buzz without the foam? Maybe electrical tape instead of foam? I'm planning to experiment with this in a couple of weeks.

Also, anyone ever try using gut strings on an Ergo? I like them on the acoustic upright, but do they translate well on the Ergo?

 

[kozmikyak]

I recently removed the strings to have a look at the bridge, and saw that the piezo elements make direct contact with the bridge feet, but are embedded in foam on the side that contacts the body. Kozmikyak, or anyone else, ever try removing the foam to see how the sound changes? I imagine that the body's vibration would come through better, but the foam must be there for a reason...maybe the pressure from the bridge is too much, or there is a buzz without the foam? Maybe electrical tape instead of foam? I'm planning to experiment with this in a couple of weeks.

The standard pickup installation is a pair of piezo discs wired in-phase (meaning both red wires to one side of a jack, both black wires to the other side). The pickup elements are a bit fragile on the side that contains the solder bumps for the wires--put too much pressure on that portion of the pickup and things can go wonky.

The last three pickup installations I've done have been of similar design. I do remove the foam, but I use varying degrees of damping/stress relief.

The configuration that worked best for a _HUGE_ fundamental-heavy bass tone was to use those neoprene washers one can find in a hardware store. On the side of the pickup without the solder bumps, I made a disc of this material the same size as the pickup disc. On the other side, with the solder bumps, I cut out a slot of the neoprene disc right where the solder bumps would be. If you get a thick neoprene washer you can even fold a pickup-sized disc in half, and use a fingernail scissors to trim a slot _halfway_ through the thickness. I super glue the pickup discs to the neoprene and put bits of double-sided tape in the bridge slot to keep them from shuffling around while trying to install the bridge.

This worked great for bass sounds, but was not sufficient for my lead arco tones; it dampened too much high end. My next attempt was using very thin squares of maple. I put one slice of maple on top of the pickup and one on the bottom. I used a Dremel tool to carve a little slot into the wood square where the solder bumps would be on the pickup. Once again, super glued together. I'm not talking about huge slices of wood, but I did have to shave down the bottom of my bridge substantially to do this. I had a luthier on hand locally to carve me a new bridge in case this experiment failed. Luckily it did not.

The result was a bit _too_ high-endy for my taste, at least arco. So my final experiment used balsa wood veneer. I ordered 1/16" thick strips of balsa wood, and did my pickup sandwich. Except this is so thin that I could just use the Dremel cutting disc to cut a slot all the way through a sheet of balsa where the solder discs would be, and just put another sheet of the balsa over that sheet. Once again, super glued together. This seemed about right to my ear.

I have the best luck with the pickup pair if the elements are located as far from the middle of the bridge slot as possible, but your taste might vary. If you use the double sided tape to keep things in place while installing the bridge, and you make sure to solder the wires leaving lots of slack, you can experiment with placement; however, without modifying the bridge your placement options are limited.

I don't know that I'd recommend going down the path of pickup mods for giggles. I had a specific reason for what i wanted to do; I wanted a simultaneous set of arco pickups and pizz pickups, so I could footswitch between them. But keeping that in mind, you're likely to get a reasonable tone no matter what you do with the "stock" pickup elements. Stress relief and dampening of high frequencies are the main points I ran into.

Jesse was so kind as to tell me what pickup elements he uses. They're not fancy, but with proper preamp they sound rather nice. I'll not mention the part here, lest he get a flood of requests to support non-standard configs. But if you ask him nicely, he's likely to accommodate you.

Please feel free to keep in touch with me via private message or Email.