Errant Middle Finger

[MrBassManG]

Good evening everybody, hope you're well.

Just a quick question for anyone who may be able to help. I've been running flying-finger drills for the last couple of weeks to try and minimise the amount of movement in the fretting hand as I move across the strings.

Now, and although there is a lot more road to travel, while I seem to be making progress with certain fingers, my middle finger is driving me up the wall. On single string exercises (1234,1324,1423 etc) it's not too bad, but when I'm going up a scale or arpeggio, it just wants to curl itself up tight, and there's not much I can do about it.

I appreciate it's going to take time, but it doesn't seem to have come on at all. Is the answer simply to keep practicing at a really slow speed, placing the ambulant finger back on the string every time? Or does anyone have a more effective suggestion for this particular problem?

Thanks in advance, all suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Mushroo]

Maybe if you posted a "hand selfie" we can look at what you are doing wrong (and also what you are doing right) and give you some specific advice?

I might catch some flak for this comment, but in my opinion, it is more important to be relaxed than to be motionless. If keeping your middle finger locked in one position is causing tension or stress in your hand, then don't try to keep your middle finger locked in one position. Allow all your fingers to move naturally to support the note you are currently playing. No need to keep unused fingers glued to the frets; better in my opinion to keep the unused fingers in a neutral position and use them for muting.

An analogy might be, if you wanted to stand in one place for a long time, it would be more relaxing to bounce around a bit and shift your weight from foot to foot, than to stand totally motionless like a Buckingham palace guard.

 

[MrBassManG]

Maybe if you posted a "hand selfie" we can look at what you are doing wrong (and also what you are doing right) and give you some specific advice?

I might catch some flak for this comment, but in my opinion, it is more important to be relaxed than to be motionless. If keeping your middle finger locked in one position is causing tension or stress in your hand, then don't try to keep your middle finger locked in one position. Allow all your fingers to move naturally to support the note you are currently playing. No need to keep unused fingers glued to the frets; better in my opinion to keep the unused fingers in a neutral position and use them for muting.

An analogy might be, if you wanted to stand in one place for a long time, it would be more relaxing to bounce around a bit and shift your weight from foot to foot, than to stand totally motionless like a Buckingham palace guard.

Thanks for that. I'll try get a picture later. To describe it better, I want my fingers to be more or less hovering in line above the strings, and on the E and A string, that happens when I run through a scale. When I play the 6,7 and oct, the line breaks and the middle finger starts to curl up pulling it down. From the front, my fingers look something like this:

II.I

with the top of the I being the fingertips playing or ready to play the 6,7 and oct, and the dot being the tip of the middle finger. I would like it to look like this

IIII

Clearer? Maybe a photo would help...

 

[two fingers]

Yep. Need a pic.

Video even better.

Also, start slowly and work up. That takes patience. If you are playing slowly, you can concentrate on your middle finger. You can pretty much TEACH your finger how you want it to behave. You can't do that playing 32nd notes at 400 BPM. Your fingers are just trying to get the job done and your brain is concentrating so hard on what's coming next rather than what is happening now.

 

[Mushroo]

...I want my fingers to be more or less hovering in line above the strings...

Why? Is this some kind of finger exercise that your teacher assigned to you? Most pros rest their unused fingers flat and relaxed on the fretboard, to mute the unplayed strings. For example here is a photo of bass virtuoso Jaco Pastorius. Notice his fingers are not "hovering in line above the strings" but rather he is deliberately touching all four strings--it sounds better that way, tighter with less mud!

with the top of the I being the fingertips playing or ready to play the 6,7 and oct, and the dot being the tip of the middle finger. I would like it to look like this...

Why? It's physically impossible to play the 6, 7, and 8 at the same time on the same string (because you can only play one note per string at a time). So why not put your hand in a comfortable position for the 6 while you are playing the 6, in a comfortable position for the 7 while you are playing the 7, and a comfortable position for the 8 while you are playing the 8?

 

[MrBassManG]

Why? Is this some kind of finger exercise that your teacher assigned to you? Most pros rest their unused fingers flat and relaxed on the fretboard, to mute the unplayed strings. For example here is a photo of bass virtuoso Jaco Pastorius. Notice his fingers are not "hovering in line above the strings" but rather he is touching all four strings--it sounds better that way, tighter with less mud!

View attachment 2761191



Why? It's physically impossible to play the 6, 7, and 8 at the same time on the same string (because you can only play one note per string at a time). So why not put your hand in a comfortable position for the 6 while you are playing the 6, in a comfortable position for the 7 while you are playing the 7, and a comfortable position for the 8 while you are playing the 8?

When you put it like that...

Cheers!

 

[MalcolmAmos]

I learned the four finger four fret method, however, after years of playing my fingers decide which one will get the note. I bring this up because my index, ring and little finger seem to do most of the work now. Looking at the box:

Major scale box showing scale degree numbers
and the root note on the 4th string.
........index..middle..ring..little
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string​

I do tend to get the root with the index finger, after that there is not a lot for the middle finger to do except for the 4 and b7. And looking at the basic bass lines of:

R-R-R-R
R---5---
R-5-8-5
R-3-5-6
R-3-5-7
R-2-3-5-6

The middle finger is not all that busy. This may throw a new light on the subject.

Good luck.

 

[Picton]

Bummer.

From the title, I thought this thread would be about something else.

 

[MrBassManG]

Thanks all for the input. I was just worried that bad technique might hinder further down the line, especially when playing minb5s or 9s and 13s for example.

Been trying to upload a video but can't seem to get it to work...

Picture'll have to do. Fretting the 6th of the Bb major

Bummer.

From the title, I thought this thread would be about something else.

It can be about whatever you want

 

[steve66]

try isolating the middle finger I. Index, middle, pink instead of doing 4 finger exercises, try counting in triplets starting on your middle finger 2 1 4, 2 4 1.. play up the chromatic scale on all 4 strings, then reverse and go down the scale.. Keep finger close to fretboard, use just enough pressure to play note

 

[MrBassManG]

try isolating the middle finger I. Index, middle, pink instead of doing 4 finger exercises, try counting in triplets starting on your middle finger 2 1 4, 2 4 1.. play up the chromatic scale on all 4 strings, then reverse and go down the scale.. Keep finger close to fretboard, use just enough pressure to play note

Thanks, will give it a go!

 

[Mushroo]

Thanks all for the input. I was just worried that bad technique might hinder further down the line, especially when playing minb5s or 9s and 13s for example.

Been trying to upload a video but can't seem to get it to work...

View attachment 2761384

Picture'll have to do. Fretting the 6th of the Bb major





It can be about whatever you want

Thanks for the pic, it helps me visualize. A few suggestions in no particular order:

1. Your fingers don't need to be stretched out that far apart. Let them relax and come closer together.

2. Your thumb position looks like it is creating tension. Try moving your thumb to the other side of your index finger, so your thumb is the closest digit towards the headstock.

3. Let your elbow relax and swing freely, don't tuck it into your rib cage.

Different teachers give different advice, so please take my comments as just one data point, not a gospel truth.

 

[MrBassManG]

Thanks for the pic, it helps me visualize. A few suggestions in no particular order:

1. Your fingers don't need to be stretched out that far apart. Let them relax and come closer together.

2. Your thumb position looks like it is creating tension. Try moving your thumb to the other side of your index finger, so your thumb is the closest digit towards the headstock.

3. Let your elbow relax and swing freely, don't tuck it into your rib cage.

Different teachers give different advice, so please take my comments as just one data point, not a gospel truth.

Thanks for the feedback. It's not the best photo, I was holding the bass up so you got an idea of what I wanted to say, so the elbow is not usually that tucked on, but I'll take it all on board and see if I can tweak a few things here and there.

Have a nice weekend!

 

[Joedog]

I kind of have the opposite problem. When I'm not using my middle finger, I often catch my self giving the crowd the bird! I wonder what a shrink would say...LOL. I have been working on being a bit more civilized... it's an uphill battle!

 

[Lobster11]

I kind of have the opposite problem. When I'm not using my middle finger, I often catch my self giving the crowd the bird!

I think your "opposite" problem is far more common than OP's. Looking at the photo he posted, I'm not sure I could make my middle finger do that in that position if I tried; it certainly doesn't want to do that on its own. And it's funny (or ironic, or weird, or something) that he started off by saying that he's been "running flying-finger drills for the last couple of weeks" -- and the problem he's having seems exactly the opposite of a "flying" finger.

Since I find it so difficult to imagine having this problem it's even harder for me to try to figure out what I would try to do to fix it. My only thoughts so far are that (1) as @Mushroo pointed out, there seems to be a lot of tension in that hand, which might be a contributing factor, and (2) I think it might be diagnostic -- though I can't figure out exactly how -- that OP says he doesn't have the same problem when fretting on the E and A strings. (OP, could you get us a photo of you with you hand in the same position, but fretting on the E and A strings?)

 

[Lobster11]

I was holding the bass up so you got an idea of what I wanted to say, so the elbow is not usually that tucked on....

Unfortunately, I think your "holding the bass up" for us to see kinda undermines the point of the photo: I think we need to see the position of your elbow, wrist, and so forth in its "natural habitat." For example, some of the issues that @Mushroo noticed (e.g., regarding apparent tension in your hand) might just be the result of your "holding the bass up," so if you don't ordinarily hold it that way the photo might send us on a wild goose chase. I'd really like to see the same photo, but with you holding the bass as you normally do -- ideally, while standing, if that is different from how you hold it when sitting.

 

[MrBassManG]

Unfortunately, I think your "holding the bass up" for us to see kinda undermines the point of the photo: I think we need to see the position of your elbow, wrist, and so forth in its "natural habitat." For example, some of the issues that @Mushroo noticed (e.g., regarding apparent tension in your hand) might just be the result of your "holding the bass up," so if you don't ordinarily hold it that way the photo might send us on a wild goose chase. I'd really like to see the same photo, but with you holding the bass as you normally do -- ideally, while standing, if that is different from how you hold it when sitting.

You're right, I'm sorry. Wild Goose tastes pretty good though!

Hope this is better:

Fretting the 2nd of Bb E string

Fretting the octave

 

[hermetic]

My middle finger is never errant, it's always on purpose.

Errr, back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[BBQisgood]

Your wrist is far too bent. Holding it in flexion like that will create needless tension.

Straightening it (see pic of Jaco above... wrist straight but fingers bent) will make lots of what @Mushroo advises fall into place naturally.

You may also use the Segovia style wrist (wrist still straight, but elbow and instrument in different position to body). Lots of pics of this.

Bottom line is that extensor tendons of hand won't like a wrist in constant flexion and your fingers will tend to bunch up.

 

[Smoove-Groove]