I recently bought an ESP Surveyor 2, now I have always thought LTD made fine instruments, especially at the price,but owning and playing a real ESP has been a real treat. The build quality is just really high end. Being on this site Ive noticed it seems like just a small group of us who are ESP/LTD users/fans......why is that? Is it that most players havent had the pleasure? Or is it that they dont want to be associated with the Metal image?
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I think ESP probably makes as big a range of basses as any other company. Many people judge them by their much cheaper offerings. As if saying fender sucks because they played a Squier Affinity. ESPs made in Japan and made in America stuff is top notch. Even their high ltd models are pretty good, and definetly a good bargain.
Yeah agreed, I dont think Ive ever played an LTD that felt cheap, now that I own one I want more, especially the Tom Araya sig. I know the Japan models are expensive, but very worth it.
I had the pleasure of picking up an older ESP Surveyor 2 not to long ago. I can say I'm a big fan of their instruments as a result. If they were to jump back into the American market with the high end stuff and the full product catalog, I would have more in my collection. I love Japanese companies like Ibanez, and ESP could give a Fender p bass and jazz bass fix with some flare. Now I routinely hunt for used ESP basses.
ESP makes great instruments and LTD stuff is very competitive at the price points they offer. The problem with ESP is that the majority of what they -and their related brands- offer is not available in the USA. Also, here in the states they seem to concentrate mostly on the more "metal" and "aggressive" designs, so that they have gotten a pushed a bit into a certain niche.
In my experience my LTD Vintage 214 (a P clone in P/J config) fretless is one of my favorite instruments. Well made, looks good, sounds good and sounds great now that I've installed a set of EMG Geezers. It was MIM quality in almost every way except electronics at just over half the price. Unfortunately they have just discontinued the "Vintage" and now they only make the sort of compromise (p/ j setup with smaller P-ish body and J neck) AP series which is of exactly no interest to me. The Vintage 214 and Vintage 204 series' are defintitely worth keeping an eye out for on the used market though.
Still, if you're looking for a new bass and there's an attractive LTD in your price range you'd be doing yourself a favor by checking it out.
In my experience my LTD Vintage 214 (a P clone in P/J config) fretless is one of my favorite instruments. Well made, looks good, sounds good and sounds great now that I've installed a set of EMG Geezers. It was MIM quality in almost every way except electronics at just over half the price. Unfortunately they have just discontinued the "Vintage" and now they only make the sort of compromise (p/ j setup with smaller P-ish body and J neck) AP series which is of exactly no interest to me. The Vintage 214 and Vintage 204 series' are defintitely worth keeping an eye out for on the used market though.
Still, if you're looking for a new bass and there's an attractive LTD in your price range you'd be doing yourself a favor by checking it out.
The Japanese make good stuff, they take a lot of pride in what they do.
I had an Ltd and it was very nice. The quality was top notch. It was a six string though and I lost interest in it and switched back to four strings. I didn't feel I needed two more strings and felt they got in the way. It wasn't because the bass was bad. If I found a nice four string model I'd probably buy it.
Unfortunately not selling all their stuff here is true. Always wanted to try a Halibut. See one used every once in a while but there's not many in the states. Those that have them seem to want to keep them.
yeah ESP appears to be big fans of pj setups these days. The stream basses have pj pickups in soapbar housings, the new affordable AP stuff has pj, the rb1000 series is pj, their vintage line has PJs.
I stopped in at th local music store last week and tried out the new LTD Stream, I have to say I was very impressed, I didnt like the look of them at first but they have grown on me.
I will admit one thing, the price tag on the real Japanese ESPs are way up there, I mean theyre worth it but DAMN! I picked my Surveyor up for 900, but he wanted 1200 so I got it for what I think is a good price, but they are kinda like Vicodin...1 is cool but more is cooler.
This was a joke by the way, I dont condone the illegal consumption of prescription painkillers.
If their fanned fret model lives up to my expectations I can see them getting huge over the next year. It's been next to impossible to find out any information on when they start shipping though
The fanned fret basses always threw me, they look difficult to navigate, did it take long for you to get used to?
Only took a few minutes, they are a lot more intuitive/comfortable than they look
I think part of the problem is that, as a company, they don't differentiate very well between their top-of-the-line ESP instruments and their lower-cost LTD models. IMHO, this lowers the perceived value of their flagship ESP series. If you go to the Fender website, the Squier instruments are in a totally separate category from the "real" Fender basses. ESP gives the LTD models equal billing on their site.
ESP also makes look-alike versions of some of their models in both the ESP and LTD series, which further causes confusion. For example, the Tommy Stinson signature ESP costs $3,500.00, while the LTD version goes for around $900.00. Visually, they are almost identical; and to someone unfamiliar with the brand, they are indistinguishable. Same for their Vintage Four (and LTD 204) basses.
I love ESP basses and my 1980s 400 Series PJ is one of my "keeper" instruments, but I'd never buy an LTD. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them, but then I'd never buy a Squier, either. Maybe that makes me a snob…I don't know. For the money I would spend on a new LTD or Squire, I could get a better quality used bass from another manufacturer (a MIA Peavey, for example). In fact, my used 400 Series ESP cost less than a new LTD 204.
Price and availability definitely play into it too. It's hard to convince an American buyer to spend the same money for an ESP P-Bass and and a MIA Fender instrument. IMHO, the quality is equal, but ESP hasn't established itself well enough in the market to charge that much. I'd love to own a Tommy Stinson PJ, but there's no way I would ever spend three grand on one. For that kind of money, I could buy one of the original Fender basses that the ESP trying to emulate!
ESP also makes look-alike versions of some of their models in both the ESP and LTD series, which further causes confusion. For example, the Tommy Stinson signature ESP costs $3,500.00, while the LTD version goes for around $900.00. Visually, they are almost identical; and to someone unfamiliar with the brand, they are indistinguishable. Same for their Vintage Four (and LTD 204) basses.
I love ESP basses and my 1980s 400 Series PJ is one of my "keeper" instruments, but I'd never buy an LTD. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them, but then I'd never buy a Squier, either. Maybe that makes me a snob…I don't know. For the money I would spend on a new LTD or Squire, I could get a better quality used bass from another manufacturer (a MIA Peavey, for example). In fact, my used 400 Series ESP cost less than a new LTD 204.
Price and availability definitely play into it too. It's hard to convince an American buyer to spend the same money for an ESP P-Bass and and a MIA Fender instrument. IMHO, the quality is equal, but ESP hasn't established itself well enough in the market to charge that much. I'd love to own a Tommy Stinson PJ, but there's no way I would ever spend three grand on one. For that kind of money, I could buy one of the original Fender basses that the ESP trying to emulate!
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You have a very interesting and valid point of view. You are right on all counts. I would tend to see this as a bonus though, at least for the people who cant afford a real ESP....on the other hand Ive seen artists like Gary Holt and Tom Araya from Slayer who use both ESP and LTD on stage.
Very true! My bass teacher uses a Squier Jazz Bass in his studio, and he still sounds better than I ever will, even if I showed up with a $4000.00 custom coffee table monster.
You have to keep in mind though that the branding has also changed. What was once ESP standard was changed to LTD Elite and now EII. They are all equal to or exceed American made standard quality. ESP's are now the custom built models only. I own several upper end LTD guitars (which are all fantastic instruments) and an LTD Elite, which is my favorite. I think comparing LTD's to Squire is a bit of a stretch as LTD's line is much more expansive, ranging from affordable low end stuff, akin to a Squier, to upper end $1400 models.
Being a Craigslist junkie I recently scored a mint ESP Standard Surveyor II with a new case and gig bag for $400. I almost crapped my pants when I saw it, and jumped on it immediately. He must have the ad up for less than two hours. All it needed was some new strings, minor clean up on the chrome parts and frets, and it's immaculate. It's the only bass I've ever owned where I haven't had to touch the truss rod at all, even after it sat in the case for several years in the previous owner's hand. He is mostly an upright player and only used it a few times, for recording. What a guy.
I've since put on a clear removable pickguard. It's amazing.
Being a Craigslist junkie I recently scored a mint ESP Standard Surveyor II with a new case and gig bag for $400. I almost crapped my pants when I saw it, and jumped on it immediately. He must have the ad up for less than two hours. All it needed was some new strings, minor clean up on the chrome parts and frets, and it's immaculate. It's the only bass I've ever owned where I haven't had to touch the truss rod at all, even after it sat in the case for several years in the previous owner's hand. He is mostly an upright player and only used it a few times, for recording. What a guy.
I've since put on a clear removable pickguard. It's amazing.
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Whoa. Sweet find! And you're right, the changing of names, lines, and brands over the years is really, really confusing, even for those of us who love ESP's instruments.
I also think the "E-II" name is a bad choice. To me, it makes the line sound second-rate...
I also think the "E-II" name is a bad choice. To me, it makes the line sound second-rate...
