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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part II

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#701
Gotta say that I sure do understand what Chris and the Toad are saying. Indeed, Spiros are brighter and it is the relatively stronger upper partials that would be expected to aid in hearing the pitch and cutting through the mix. After all, most here know that on a gig where you're amped, you adjust the tone to be a bit brighter than what you'd want if you were playing alone. That ends up placing you better in the mix. If a jazz newbie were to ask about strings, I'd recommend Spiro mitts all day long.

So, what is it about the EP weichs? Well, I just find that front-end percussive "pop" and the powerful fundamental to be really intoxicating. Having gone from EP weichs to Spiros for six months and then back, all the differences are really apparent. As of today, I'm still getting used to the stiffer feel of the EP weichs. I'll give it a while. Whos knows? I may just run right back to the Spiro mitts. Time will tell... ;)
 
#703
moopants said:
I guess I'm just ignorant, but I've always thought that light gauge strings would be weak in comparison to regulars. Maybe I'll try the EP weichs after my regulars die..
Click to expand...

Not ignorant at all. On my bass, the EP weichs are less powerful than the regulars. I prefer the weichs because they are more comfortable, and have better articulation and sustain than the regulars. As was said before, however, the weichs seem to be misnamed. Think of them as a "mittel" string. They're only "weich"in comparison to the EP regulars. On my bass, the EP weichs are extremely powerful-sounding-- "weak" would not be a word that would come to mind! :) YMMV, IMO, IME, my $0.02
 
#705
Every bass has a different spot where the amount of tension is just right for the box to be driven with punch and clarity and maximum volume. Below that you loose something usually volume and often articulation and above that you start choking down...losing something else.

Moreover everyone has a little different idea of where they want to sit in the mix they are playing in. Some need to blend and play with one ensemble voice, others need to carve a niche that can't be occupied by anyone else. You have to pick the string that your bass likes and your hands and bow get the most out of.

....Everyone needs something different and you really have to try stuff to know what works and what doesn't. Sometimes these conversations are pointless because of this.

On my basses EP regulars choked them and they didn't sound good. EP Weichs sound great on the ply but not in a dense mix where I want to define myself. Spirocores are harder to play in tune that EP Weichs because the pitch focus is more precise. When I do play in tune it's more noticable just as when I play out of tune. With EP Weichs like guts I can get away with a little more slack and still sound "in tune" even though it's more imprecise than spirocores.

Tonight after 3 gigs in a row my hands feel great. I don't have to work to hard to get a nice ping on the note with spiros vs. EP Weichs had me tired as hell by the end of one night trying to find the same articulation. It's not there with those strings on my basses.
 
#706
It was a rough night for me. Not a great gig for the band in general, but I was really missing my Spirocores. The EPWs felt good under my hands, I couldn't hear them. The drummer said in a setbreak "I'm having trouble hearing you tonight. What's going on?" Out front, people say they could hear me fine. Reminds me of Flexocores, which are among my favorite unusable strings, feel great, sound great under ideal circumstances, project well, but standing over the bass, it just doesn't make it up to your ears. One more set break and I would have pulled a Toad and done a string change on stage.

I don't want to blame the strings entirely, I wish I was better on the EQ. I tried a lot of stuff tonight, but I've played that gig, in that place, with that band and I know that brighter strings would have helped.

I do like the EPWs better than the EPRs. They are really the string that I've always wanted...but now I really don't want them any more. I'll sleep on it.

By the way, used the bow a bit tonight and I swear they bow no better than my spirocore weichs. I swear. They're fine, but so were the spirocores.
 
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#707
Troy-- thanks for the report! The sound aside, how did your right hand feel? Did you find the EPWs to be stiff? Roughly where are your string heights? I'm assuming you were playing the carved bass listed in your profile-- yes? I'm asking all of this because I'm trying to get a picture of when people like the EPWs. I have some theories... :hiding:
 
#708
They felt good. I didn't feel tired like I did with the regulars. My shoulder held out fine. I wouldn't describe them as stiff. I actually really liked them except for well the lack of clarity amplified, in the mix.

Yep, my bass. I'll see if I can get a string height measure, but not uber low. I think I could probably give the adjusters a full rotation lower and have it playable and where a lot of people have their strings.

I'm not quite sure what to do, I liked the extra gauge, I was overplaying the spiro weichs a bit. I might try Spiro mittels or jazzers again or something involving some flatchromesteels.

I'm interested in some kind of Velvet for the larger gauge and lower tension, but I'm worried about overplaying them with my right hand. I've goofed around with them on other people's basses, but never on my own.

EDIT: In fairness, I don't want to lay this all on the strings. I think they are very good string. The best I've tried of the synthetic core variety. My bass, my ear, my ability to coax sound out with my hands and my eq all could be factors.
 
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#711
So, I heard some tape from last night and the tone of the bass was great. It's not what I heard when I was playing, but what came out was very nice. I can hear though that a) I'm not really playing that well and b) I'm playing very conservatively because I can't really hear and I'm afraid of flamming. So, it's a quandry, but I have to be able to hear when I'm playing.
 
#712
bonaventura said:
The EPs sound really great and I'm liking them more today. But the sound, while big and loud and soft and bouncy and with the pop in front -- everything everyone has been saying -- is also a bit tighter on my bass and does not have the just awe-inspiring Fundamental of the Spiros.
Click to expand...

I am reading to see if I should try the Evahs.

I guess I just have a comment on what people call a "strong fundamental". And maybe someone can clarify what the Evahs really are like if they understand what I am talking about.
In my experience, many people say that a certain string has a strong fundamental when it sounds boomy or bassy. This boomyness is more likely when strings have strong low mids combined with weak upper harmonics.

Paradoxically, a strong fundamental is something I have mostly found in strings that are actually quite bright, like spiros and dominants. This is why I think the quote above might be more accurate than some might think.

comments?
 
#714
The fundamental is the first harmonic or the zeroth-order overtone in the harmonic series of frequencies produced by a string. For example, the E-string has a fundamental (first harmonic) of ~41 Hz. The overtone series, beginning with the second harmonic would be 82 Hz, 123 Hz, 164 Hz.... The relative strength of the the individual component frequencies in the series gives the sound its character. It is sometimes referred to as the spectral profile. A "bright" string has relatively strong upper harmonics; a "dark" string has relatively weak upper harmonics. Pitch is actually easier to hear if the harmonic series is prominent. In fact, the pitch can even be determined if the fundamental is entirely missing. On the bandstand, the fundamental will sometimes get lost. Having strong upper partials can help to hear the pitch.

When I've mentioned that the Evahs have a strong fundamental, I mean exactly that. That is, the fundamental frequency of the string is very powerful. On my bass anyway, the power of the fundamental is, in an absolute sense, stronger than what I get with Spiro mitts. Now, Spiro mitts are brighter than Evahs. That is to say that, relative to the fundamental, the upper partials are stronger with Spiros than with Evahs. What's important to point out though is that, for me anyway, it's not the case that Spiros have about the same power in the fundamental as the Evahs, coupled with stronger upper partials. Rather, the fundamental itself is weaker on the Spiros. It's really that the Evahs have a remarkably strong fundamental and not there's anything lacking with Spiros compared to many other strings. The same holds true on a number of basses I've played but, of course, will not be true for all basses (and players). YMMV, YMMV, YMMV. :)

See page 217 here.
 
#715
drurb said:
The fundamental is the first harmonic or the zeroth-order overtone in the harmonic series of frequencies produced by a string. For example, the E-string has a fundamental (first harmonic) of ~41 Hz. The overtone series, beginning with the second harmonic would be 82 Hz, 123 Hz, 164 Hz.... The relative strength of the the individual component frequencies in the series gives the sound its character. It is sometimes referred to as the spectral profile. A "bright" string has relatively strong upper harmonics; a "dark" string has relatively weak upper harmonics. Pitch is actually easier to hear if the harmonic series is prominent. In fact, the pitch can even be determined if the fundamental is entirely missing. On the bandstand, the fundamental will sometimes get lost. Having strong upper partials can help to hear the pitch.

When I've mentioned that the Evahs have a strong fundamental, I mean exactly that. That is, the fundamental frequency of the string is very powerful. On my bass anyway, the power of the fundamental is, in an absolute sense, stronger than what I get with Spiro mitts. Now, Spiro mitts are brighter than Evahs. That is to say that, relative to the fundamental, the upper partials are stronger with Spiros than with Evahs. What's important to point out though is that, for me anyway, it's not the case that Spiros have about the same power in the fundamental as the Evahs, coupled with stronger upper partials. Rather, the fundamental itself is weaker on the Spiros. It's really that the Evahs have a remarkably strong fundamental and not there's anything lacking with Spiros compared to many other strings. The same holds true on a number of basses I've played but, of course, will not be true for all basses (and players). YMMV, YMMV, YMMV. :)

See page 217 here.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the theory (which I knew already as a former piano tuner). Your opinion was what I was looking for, and it sounds like a string I need to try.

In my experience, regarding spirocores, when broken in and when played by someone that knows how to play them, in classical arco situations, they have a very pronounced V shaped profile, meaning very strong fundamental and a very strong upper register. The fundamental being pretty earth shattering.

When brand new and/or played by someone that hasn't learned how to handle them, or players that don't use a lot of rosin, the fundamental is often completely missing, just as you pointed out.

In my experience, dark strings often have a very unsatisfying, safe sound. With the rolled off highs and sort of an inverted U shaped profile. I just wanted to make sure that the Evahs were not like that.
 
#716
Eddue said:
Dr. Rod

Sometimes a strong fundamental refers to how well you can hear the actual pitch of the note when compared to the overtones (partials) of the note.

But this may not be what the other posters mean here in this forum.
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Thanks Eddue,

I think that , just as DRURB rightly points out, it is actually the upper partials that make it easier to recognize the pitch, even if the fundamental is missing completely.
 
#717
Dr Rod said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the theory (which I knew already as a former piano tuner). Your opinion was what I was looking for, and it sounds like a string I need to try.

In my experience, regarding spirocores, when broken in and when played by someone that knows how to play them, in classical arco situations, they have a very pronounced V shaped profile, meaning very strong fundamental and a very strong upper register. The fundamental being pretty earth shattering.

When brand new and/or played by someone that hasn't learned how to handle them, or players that don't use a lot of rosin, the fundamental is often completely missing, just as you pointed out.

In my experience, dark strings often have a very unsatisfying, safe sound. With the rolled off highs and sort of an inverted U shaped profile. I just wanted to make sure that the Evahs were not like that.
Click to expand...

I was talking about my experience with Spiros and Evah for pizz. There's no way around it; the Evahs are pretty dark. Using your terms, I wouldn't say at all that the Evahs have an inverted U profile. They're not boomy and mid-range heavy. Rather, they seem to have a strong fundamental with rolled off upper partials. With Spiros played pizz., I do get a strong fundamental. It's just that with Evahs, the fundamental is outrageous! That is, in a good way. I can't comment too much on arco except to say that when I put the bow on the Evahs, they would shake rooms, break windows, and shatter dishware. For me, they also bow easier than Spiros. Hope this helps.
 
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