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Ever been ripped-off by your own boss...?
- Thread starter Spinal Tapper
- Start date
I find it telling that nobody can offer an answer besides "quitting." I'm trying to narrow down an answer for the OP to his quandry. While I don't believe the OP has any claim to the $500 that his company earned through his labor, it seems to me that he might have a pretty legitimate problem brewing for the future.
The next time the boss comes up to the OP and says, "in addition to your 40 hours, I have another project for my friend that I want you to do," at what point does the OP have a right to say, "I will be happy to discuss that directly with the client as a freelance job and cut you a percentage for the referral?"
Internet Blowhard said:
Why? It's kind of like the same reason I'm gunning for #1 most misunderstood poster/person on the planet, and probably will make it here.
Nobody gives a **** until they get hurt. This is a good example of a thread. It's "i worked hard for the money" followed by "and I got bent over and given the business when the job was done".
Really I'm looking to see what a screaming hoot the next four years is going to look like.
Nobody gives a **** until they get hurt. This is a good example of a thread. It's "i worked hard for the money" followed by "and I got bent over and given the business when the job was done".
Really I'm looking to see what a screaming hoot the next four years is going to look like.
From a normative perspective, that's fine. From a legal perspective, you can still be terminated, regardless if you mention the employer's name or not. You are an employee-at-will without a contract.
The collective bargaining agreement fits into it, because you mentioned that the employer wouldn't win a grievance if the employee filed one. Without a collective bargaining agreement, there is no grievance-arbitration procedure. There may be some internal grievance procedure that the organization's HR department has, but it's not legally binding like an arbitrator's decision would be for a CBA (aribtrator's decisions can only be very, very rarely overturned by the supreme court
). I remember you said something about "wrongful termination" in a labor-related thread a week or so ago and I made a tongue in cheek joke about it. With all due respect, I think you are grossly misinformed if you think that an employer needs to have a "legitimate" cause in the United States to terminate an employee. Unless the employee has a contract (CBA or personal) or the employer has violated a statute, such as Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, NLRA, etc., then an employee can be terminated for good reason, bad reason, or no reason at all. There is a small amount of case law that deals with things like constructive discharge (i.e., creating such a hostile work environment that you quit) and getting fired for fulfilling your public duty (e.g., jury duty), but those cases are relatively rare.
This whole "doing something for another company at his boss's behest" thing is kinda silly, because that's what every employee does.
This is called "doing your job". A clint is a client. When you provide service to the client, the company gets paid. You get your salary. It's up to the company whether it provides bonuses or other additional compensation.
This is also a reason not to spend a lot of personal time on projects that won't generate additional compensation for you. If you spend work time on it, that's simply how the company wants you to spend your time based on their work flow. It doesn't matter who or what the client is - the work is assigned to you, and you do it. End of story.
You are not being ripped off. You're doing your job. If you do it well over a period of time, than you have good reason to ask for a raise.
I didn't realize that I was supposed to be offering solutions. I'll be sure to get my proposal on your desk by next week, though.
I agree, but my main point is even that isn't always necessarily so cut and dry. Having too much education or too much work experience in high level positions can close out lower level jobs. I know that sounds contradictory, but employers make decisions, some of them irrational.
This is definitely a difference in experience and philosophy between us. As a career development person who's done hundreds of interviews, I tell people I counsel when mentioning strenghts to stay away from things that should be implicitly assumed to be inherent in a professional, such as punctuality.* They are going to be competing with people who have similar backgrounds, education, and skillsets, so I work on getting them to articulate things that are going to set them apart from the average candidate and that are going to specifically add value to an organization. I really steer people away from choosing saying something like "I'm a hard worker" as a selling point in their interviews and cover letters - it's such an easy thing to say, such a very difficult thing to actually qualify.
Of course, I also tell most of them that if you were to ask an I/O psychologist about the validity of the average interview when it comes to hiring decisions, they'd probably laugh. But that's a discussion for a different time. I mean this with no malice, but I'd highly suggest framing much of your interviews in a behavior-based format. It's one thing to say that you'll be on time and don't bring drama. It's another thing to ask people a specific times they had to navigate conflict at work. You just increased the interview's validity by doing so. And don't be afraid to be probative.
The reason I gave my life story, as you say, is that your response said something along the lines of my reply sounded like a whiny voice making excuses for being lazy. Calling someone lazy is one of those social landmines that you want to avoid, like dissin' someone's family. I normally don't let words on a screen bother me; but I wanted to clarify some things because I think your assumptions based upon my responses were quite off.
And I agree. I don't know why you'd think I don't. This whole exchange began because I find the idea that people are complete free agents to walk out and get another day gig just because they're not being rewarded at their current position absurd, due both to my experience and the thousands of pages of economic and sociological research out there. People are constrained by a number of factors, and it's not all just learned helplessness or because they are lazy.
*I do realize that even so, some people just aren't punctual. I have a friend who's been relatively successful in his career as an administrator, and he's one of the least punctual people I know. But it should be assumed that anyone who has a long enough work history has the basic soft skills to thrive in a work environment, like being on time.
LiquidMidnight said:
I agree with you. I've done my share of interviews, and it feels like a "no duh" moment to me when the applicant says they'll be on time and work hard everyday. When I see an opening listed with one of the qualifications as punctual, I wonder why the employer had to list that. Isn't that a given?
-Mike
Yep, you got the name correct for the states.
If you ever get a chance, read some of the case law about constructive discharge. There is some pretty crazy stuff, particuarly in the precedent setting cases. It will make you sick to read about how some people treat their fellow humans.
On the other hand, when interviewing a receptionist, that's one of the things I want to hear most.
A real estate agency? Those don't necessarily survive on cohesion and "atta-boys". Most folks in your company are working for commission. In this market, your steady paycheck is a source of envy/derision for those at the whim of real estate prices/demand. This would certainly include your boss. Most of the offices around here are like "Lord of the flies" with pantsuits, fake pearls, and vicious fake smiles highlighted with 3000 shades of lipstick. Appearance is everything, and usually the fancy cars are owned by banks. Good luck finding sympathy/appreciation with that crowd. They too, work long hours, deal with aggrivating people, and oftentimes come up "snake eyes". A few of my friends have left the business, and those who have stayed have had months or years shaved off their lives by the stress of the last four years. Lots of 4-8 week (or longer) negotiations ending with a "no" from a recalcitrant bank. The commercial side has become brutal, too. Anybody here tried to finance a startup lately?
You may want to look for a job where more people are on salary and a team oriented approach is more appreciated. Hopefully you can translate your skill set. The dog-eat-dog and feast-or-famine mentalities have a way of permeating the workplace, sometimes with unpleasant consequences. Some folks thrive on that, some don't. Some bosses realize that commission workers and salaried employees respond to different stimuli, some don't. If you can find yourself a successful manufacturer, importer, not-for-profit, etc. who can use your services, you may FEEL much more appreciated in the workplace (or you may not- no business has a monopoly on jerkiness) Whether or not you can make the same salary...
If 500$ causes you any discomfort, I would not suggest self employment. That amount wouldn't even cover your "nut" for the work you did. It's a harsh reality, but there it is. The check was a token. It sucks that your boss didn't treat it as such, and pass it along, but it's pretty small in the grand scheme. Are you sure he's not waiting for the end of the quarter to show his appreciation in a more meaningful way? Are you sure "B"'s business isn't swirling the toilet?
I apologize if I've offended any business owners, managers, real estate agents, husbands of real estate agents, working women, fake pearl, pantsuit, or toilet manufacturers, decsendents of William Golding, dogs or actual famine sufferers with my colorful language, non-factual observations, and whimsical speculation. The extra cup of coffee may have been a mistake. YMMV.
You may want to look for a job where more people are on salary and a team oriented approach is more appreciated. Hopefully you can translate your skill set. The dog-eat-dog and feast-or-famine mentalities have a way of permeating the workplace, sometimes with unpleasant consequences. Some folks thrive on that, some don't. Some bosses realize that commission workers and salaried employees respond to different stimuli, some don't. If you can find yourself a successful manufacturer, importer, not-for-profit, etc. who can use your services, you may FEEL much more appreciated in the workplace (or you may not- no business has a monopoly on jerkiness) Whether or not you can make the same salary...
If 500$ causes you any discomfort, I would not suggest self employment. That amount wouldn't even cover your "nut" for the work you did. It's a harsh reality, but there it is. The check was a token. It sucks that your boss didn't treat it as such, and pass it along, but it's pretty small in the grand scheme. Are you sure he's not waiting for the end of the quarter to show his appreciation in a more meaningful way? Are you sure "B"'s business isn't swirling the toilet?
I apologize if I've offended any business owners, managers, real estate agents, husbands of real estate agents, working women, fake pearl, pantsuit, or toilet manufacturers, decsendents of William Golding, dogs or actual famine sufferers with my colorful language, non-factual observations, and whimsical speculation. The extra cup of coffee may have been a mistake. YMMV.
I didn't say that it was. My point was meant to be that you need to build up a relationship of trust with your employees starting with the smaller stuff so that they know it'll come back to them.
For working that much more, I'd expect cold hard cash followed by some vacation time to recover, and if I didn't get it I'd be doing personal stuff on company time until we were even.
"Quitting" is the right solution to pretty much any abusive relationship. But not necessarily the easy one.
If it were me, and the OPs relationship with his boss were the same as my relationship with mine, I'd say "hey, you know that extra job I did for your friend? It took longer than I expected and I had to do my regular stuff in my personal time. Any objection if I head out early a few days over the next month to catch up on the house painting? Don't worry, I'll make sure that things are quiet first." And he'd be cool with that. If not, then I'd probably think "strike 1" and start looking.
Liquid....you're free to your opinions obviously and considering your career is kind of based on this topic I wouldn't expect for you to budge on them.
We'll just agree to disagree. I don't want to come off like I'm saying getting a new job is simple but I think we can both agree that a lot of people make it a lot harder than it needs to be on themselves, regardless of the reason.
We'll just agree to disagree. I don't want to come off like I'm saying getting a new job is simple but I think we can both agree that a lot of people make it a lot harder than it needs to be on themselves, regardless of the reason.
I've learned that that's often the best and mature thing to do once you get into adulthood.
If you're ever in Central or Western PA, hit me up and we shall partake in the tasteful brew. 
The OP never has that right. And if he attempted it he should be fired. Most employers would take a dim view of employees stealing their clients.
What he should do is push back and state that this plus his normal deliverables cannot both be done on time (assuming that is the case) and let the boss set priorities and new deadlines.
I had a boss who ripped me off for 100's of pounds, I knew I would never get it, not a chance in hell. So I quit. However, what I did do was report all the dangers in the workplace to the local authorities, wiring, plumbing, structural work, fire exits, alarms, extinguishers. In the end it cost the employer 1000s to bring the workplace up to code.
I LOL'd ooh how I LOL'd
I LOL'd ooh how I LOL'd
