Ever been ripped-off by your own boss...?

[livinitup0]

Listen, I don't know what your education level is, but even the most conservative, austere economist would agree that there is more to employment than the talk radio lecture you just recited.

Ok... Like what?

You lose your job... You can't find one in your area that uses the skills you used in your last one...your suggestion is to just complain? I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to argue with me about.

 

[bolophonic]

Ok... Like what?

You lose your job... You can't find one in your area that uses the skills you used in your last one...your suggestion is to just complain? I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to argue with me about.

Maybe you have me confused with someone else, because I have never suggested that the only option is to complain.

 

[livinitup0]

Maybe you have me confused with someone else, because I have never suggested that the only option is to complain.

Then what is your suggestion?

 

[bolophonic]

Then what is your suggestion?

My suggestion would be for you to turn off the radio and educate yourself on the many, many factors that drive employment/unemployment besides "laziness," for starters.

 

[livinitup0]

My suggestion would be for you to turn off the radio and educate yourself on the many, many factors that drive employment/unemployment besides "laziness," for starters.

Alrighty then... Will do.
Good luck on your job search.

 

[Simo98]

My suggestion would be for you to turn off the radio and educate yourself on the many, many factors that drive employment/unemployment besides "laziness," for starters.

Of course there are many factors that have an effect on employment and the amount of available jobs. However on an individual level they are borderline insignificant. So long as there are still more than 0 jobs in the entire world, you can get one.

On an individual level, I would say that laziness probably is one of the largest contributing factors towards unemployment, among other things. If a person doesn't have a job and can't get one, chances are the problem is them, and they need to adapt and change to suit the jobs that are going if they want to get one.

 

[bolophonic]

Alrighty then... Will do.
Good luck on your job search.

I have been consistently employed for more than 25 years and have lived all over the country, gaining skills, staying ahead of the curve in terms of employment trends and responding to the demands of the market. Maybe you also have me confused with someone who is unemployed?

 

[Baer]

Thought I'd drop in on this thread and was surprised to see it has progressed to nine pages in one day. Then I realized it hasn't progressed, it has only grown.

 

[bolophonic]

Of course there are many factors that have an effect on employment and the amount of available jobs. However on an individual level they are borderline insignificant. So long as there are still more than 0 jobs in the entire world, you can get one.

On an individual level, I would say that laziness probably is one of the largest contributing factors towards unemployment, among other things. If a person doesn't have a job and can't get one, chances are the problem is them, and they need to adapt and change to suit the jobs that are going if they want to get one.

Ok, lets say someone is employed in a manufacturing job in a small town and they spend every single day for 20 years working in a factory that closes down and their middle class job is shipped overseas. Now that person has solid non-transferrable job skills and unless there is another manufacturing option, they are competing with everyone else from the factory for a $7.00 an hour job at the Walmart down by the interstate. And they need it to feed their family.

Education, job history, skills, geographical location... those are the "borderline insignificant" factors that I would consider to be more likely to have an influence on whether someone can just go out and grab the next job. There is something missing if the only other option is that everyone but you is "lazy."

 

[LiquidMidnight]

All I kept hearing in this response was a whiny voice in my head saying "it's not my fault I'm not employed" ...whatever... Lazys gotta be lazy. Adapt and overcome or get the hell out of the way of the rest of us that take responsibility for ourselves.

Hardly. I've worked up to three jobs at a time while carrying 15 credits as a graduate student (9 credits is considered full time, BTW). Have put in an easy 10 - 12 hours of work a day for weeks on end. Have had sickness as a direct consequence of working too hard for extended periods of time. Have traveled for day gigs by being far away from home for extended periods. Have played hundreds of gigs and never missed one, used a sub, or had a date moved on my behalf. I'm pretty much a classic overachiever. But hey, you'll welcome to make assumptions about me. I can send you copies of my resume and CV if you need proof. Cute ad hominem, though. You're welcome to go around to anyone who lost their day gig to an economic recission and call them lazy. The world's a little more complicated than any Randian notion that the cream simply rises to the top on simple principle that it's the cream. It's not an excuse, as I'm sure you'll spin it, It's just reality.

P.s. I should also mention that I'm actually not in disagreement with you about learning new skills and adapting to new labor trends; there's no point in sitting around bitchin'. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do career development stuff for my day gig. If there's one thing I've learned from dealing with this stuff on a daily basis, it's that adapting to labor market trends doesn't happen over night and everyone's situation is different. Also, successfully adapting to changes in the market gets increasingly difficult as you...you guessed it...get older and closer to retirement age. My entire point is that the simple, "don't like your job situation, simply change it" mindset is so far from reality that I find it to be aburdist comedy.

 

[aborgman]

What I am wondering is this: if a person is paid (x) amount of dollars a week with no overtime and their duties do not end at 40 hours, at what point does the employer NOT own them?

When they quit.

 

[David Jayne]

When they quit.

You have a very interesting view on things.

 

[1958Bassman]

Hey guys. I appreciate all the responses to this. I've definitely read them all through and seen all sides. This is an interesting topic, it turns out, with many different opinions on whats right/wrong morally, and legally.

Not sure if it matters now, but when I really get to the bottom of why I was truly feeling "ripped off", I initially felt like the check (or at least some of it) was supposed to be for my time and hard work.
I'm pretty good at picking up on people's intentions- and I really felt those were the intentions from B. After all was said and done, I think the project took longer than he expected, and I think he actually felt kinda bad about it. He was a really straight-shooting guy through this whole thing, and I think he knew he was "putting me out" from my regular workload.

I worked very closely with B on this project. Over many phone calls and emails. B seemed like the kind of guy (unlike A) who would want to reward a hard working fellow like myself for my time on his project.

When his assistant called ME to ask what address to send the check to, she had the same kind of appreciation in her voice like, Hey, B wants to do something nice for you. Where can we send this check?
Kind of like how you get a bonus around Christmas. It's not mandatory at all, but it feels good to the person getting it, AND feels good to the person giving it- like doing the right thing...

Now that's just assuming...but that was how my gut really felt, which lead me to create this thread. B's intentions were for me to get some of the check.

Whose name is on the "Pay to the order of" line? If your name is on it, the check is yours.

 

[1958Bassman]

You're confusing a normative argument about what someone says on their own time and the legal implications of if they can be terminated for what they say on their own time. An employee can be terminated for speaking badly about their employer on their own time. Courts have upheld this time and time again.

As far as an employer winning or losing if a grievance for wrongful termination were filed, that really comes down to two things: 1). the language of the collective bargaining agreement, and 2). the arbitrator's interpretation of the language of the collective bargaining agreement. Arbitrators aren't necessarily bound by stare decisis the same way judges are, and they make their decisions based upon the "four corners of the contract." However, it sounds like the OP isn't a union employee, so if that were true, there would be no grievance-arbitration procedure anyways; therefore, it's a moot point.

Re: speaking badly of an employer on one's own time- if nobody here knows who the OP is or which company they work for, no damage has been done- it's just someone who thinks they got screwed by their boss. If they made their name and company known, it's a different story.

How does a collective bargaining agreement fit into this? This is one person, doing something for another company at his boss's behest, expecting money for something he was already being paid for and using his present company's time and resources.

 

[fdeck]

All I kept hearing in this response was a whiny voice in my head saying "it's not my fault I'm not employed" ...whatever... Lazys gotta be lazy. Adapt and overcome or get the hell out of the way of the rest of us that take responsibility for ourselves.

Taking "it's not my fault I'm not employed" and replacing it with "Lazys gotta be lazy" strikes me as replacing one useless platitude with another.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I tend to look at the extra overhead incurred by the employer, a little extra electric, and compare that with our Johnny Get The Job Done who did overtime to get the job done. Imho employer owes at least an afternoon off someday.

 

[livinitup0]

Hardly. I've worked up to three jobs at a time while carrying 15 credits as a graduate student (9 credits is considered full time, BTW). Have put in an easy 10 - 12 hours of work a day for weeks on end. Have had sickness as a direct consequence of working too hard for extended periods of time. Have traveled for day gigs by being far away from home for extended periods. Have played hundreds of gigs and never missed one, used a sub, or had a date moved on my behalf. I'm pretty much a classic overachiever. But hey, you'll welcome to make assumptions about me. I can send you copies of my resume and CV if you need proof. Cute ad hominem, though. You're welcome to go around to anyone who lost their day gig to an economic recission and call them lazy. The world's a little more complicated than any Randian notion that the cream simply rises to the top on simple principle that it's the cream. It's not an excuse, as I'm sure you'll spin it, It's just reality.

P.s. I should also mention that I'm actually not in disagreement with you about learning new skills and adapting to new labor trends; there's no point in sitting around bitchin'. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do career development stuff for my day gig. If there's one thing I've learned from dealing with this stuff on a daily basis, it's that adapting to labor market trends doesn't happen over night and everyone's situation is different. Also, successfully adapting to changes in the market gets increasingly difficult as you...you guessed it...get older and closer to retirement age. My entire point is that the simple, "don't like your job situation, simply change it" mindset is so far from reality that I find it to be aburdist comedy.

You ...again ...offer no solutions.

My main point is really for the people who go months and months being unemployed when really all one needs to do to get a job is walk their happy ass down to the nearest restaurant or fast food chain and say "I'll be here on time and I don't have any drama" yeah... As a manager that's done hundreds of interviews... That goes a helluva long way.

Does it replace a 50k plus income? Of course not.. But it's something to build off of and is a hell of a lot more productive than pondering national employment trends.

And no offense (especially because you're not the 1st to do it itt...) But no one asked for your life story, nor does it apply to this topic.

My point in a nutshell Is that getting off "your" (and no that doesn't mean YOU) ass and getting out there and taking what you can get while working to improve it is more effective than all the other crap being talked about here.

 

[UncleFluffy]

What I am wondering is this: if a person is paid (x) amount of dollars a week with no overtime and their duties do not end at 40 hours, at what point does the employer NOT own them?

They are free to terminate the relationship at any time, a slave is not.

They are also then free to claim constructive dismissal(*), a slave is not.


(* constructive discharge in the US? my training in these issues was in the UK)

Imho employer owes at least an afternoon off someday.

Agreed. One of my rules as a manager is "Slack is a medium of exchange. You cut me some, I cut you some. We all win that way. There's a case of beer in the bottom of your filing cabinet. Don't drink it in the office."

 

[Truktek2]

One of my rules as a manager is "Slack is a medium of exchange. You cut me some, I cut you some. We all win that way. There's a case of beer in the bottom of your filing cabinet. Don't drink it in the office."

It's pretty sad when a pat on the back, a promise of a half day next Wednesday, and a case of beer is considered fair payment for 14 hr 6 day workweeks.

If this is how "business works" keep it. We might as well go back to wampum. Someone's "winning" alright, but I hardly think it's the worker.

 

[scorpionldr]

It's pretty sad when a pat on the back, a promise of a half day next Wednesday, and a case of beer is considered fair payment for 14 hr 6 day workweeks.

If this is how "business works" keep it. We might as well go back to wampum. I hardly consider that anyone "winning".

that's what people call "lucky" today.