Ever feel like your teacher is frustrated with you?

[Gadgetech]

I had a lesson this week and there was a point in the lesson where I felt like the teach just got frustrated with me. Maybe I'm reading into it but I felt like he figuratively threw his hands up thinking WTH. I've been taking lessons for several months. He knows I'm busy and travel sometimes which makes practicing with any regularity hard. IMO we have a good student/teacher fit and generally have a good lesson, meaning good vibes/good progress etc.

For this week he wanted me to improv a bit, now being that I've played sax for years you'd think that was second nature but I've always been stronger in written music performance. Plain just didn't learn those skills in school BUT I'd love to get comfortable with it. Anyway...I told him I wasn't super comfortable with it. Simple enough when he explains it but I'm kinda like McFly playing the guitar at the prom when he starts to fade out. So teach does a 180 and asks what kind of songs I like...name some bands. Well again not my forte. If he starts playing the tune I can hum out the entire thing but don't asked me who sang it or the song title. I replied just about any classic rock. Then he asks if I'd rather work on chords within a scale and how those work. I said I'd prefer that. He writes out about 12 chords says learn those by next week, see ya then.

Maybe not a big deal but it just felt weird. I don't know if I should say anything about it next time or just see how it goes and if everything seems fine leave it alone. I think part of his frustration is I have a fair amount of musical knowledge but still trying to gain in skill with the bass and it's slow going. Kinda like a whole bunch of head knowledge but little application.

One thing is for sure, I'm going to know those chord structures backwards and forwards for the next lesson, lol.

Sorry for the long winded drivel.

 

[bassbully]

If he is any kind of a teacher he has to understand everybody learns at different speed and levels. One students way of learning is not another's. A good teacher should not show frustration to a student. Also understand you are paying him and he needs to chill.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

When I used to teach, I would get frustrated if a student wasn't trying or just refused to practice. I'd never get frustrated with them struggling to play a part or learn a concept - provided that they TRIED and they put in their time. I even "fired" students for not practicing. Yeah, I wasn't really in it for the money.

But if you are putting your best effort in and he's seeming frustrated - remember, you are the customer - mention it. If it persists, find a different instructor.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

......................For this week he wanted me to improv a bit, now being that I've played sax for years you'd think that was second nature but I've always been stronger in written music performance. Plain just didn't learn those skills in school BUT I'd love to get comfortable with it. Anyway...I told him I wasn't super comfortable with it.

Treble clef instruments get comfortable with written sheet music. Some piano players, take their music away, and they are lost. What you are facing is normal, and he is trying to find which way you need to go.

....... Then he asks if I'd rather work on chords within a scale and how those work. I said I'd prefer that. He writes out about 12 chords says learn those by next week, see ya then. .

OK you got 12 chords. What are you going to do with them? He is forcing you to write your own bass lines or solo lines. Dirt simple way of looking at this - scales for solo lines and chord tones for bass lines.

I bet he has given you the 12 bar blues progression - which is a great improvisational study. Are all of the chords dominant seven chords? If so you got the 12 bar blues progression. The Internet is full of blues backing tracks. Pull some up and see what you can do with the chord tones of the dominant seven chord, i.e. R-3-5-b7 or use the Blues scale notes R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 over that entire progression and see what comes of it. No not in scale order. Three close notes then a leap or pause. Let the chord's notes R-3-5-b7 guide you. I'd hang out around the root and the b7.

Just in case, here is the major scale box. It will help with all that R-3-5-b7 stuff.
Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
C7 chord coming up. Find a C note and put the box's R over that C note then play the spelling for the C7 chord. That spelling is R-3-5-b7. F7 coming next, find an F note and do the same. Now the song will probably not give you room for a full R-3-5-b7 so........

Start with just the roots, then add the 5, when that is flowing throw in the b7 or 7. Try the 3 or b3 shoot for a groove with the backing track. Notice the first video has a quick blues first line and the second video keeps the tonic chord for four measures. That's what makes the blues progression great, it's the same basic chord progression over and over and over, once you get going you do not have to worry with what chord is coming up next just fofllow the blues chord progression. Now all you have to do is play something over those chords. What something? Chord tones or the blues scale, kinda up to you. This will come in handy. http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

Listen to what the bass is doing. Sounds like a root on the first beat then a walk to the next chord. Target the next root and miss it by two or three frets - then walk to that next root and be on it for the chord change. See what you can do with that.


On this one I hear a R-3-5-b7 for each chord.

Click on the small words at the top of the video for more backing tracks.

Little more on the progression.
C7-C7-C7-C7
F7-F7-C7-C7
G7-F7-C7-G7 to loop or C7 to end.

First line of the tonic chords gets the key set, OK this one is in C.
Second line brings in the 4 chord for some tension, then returns to the tonic.
Third line brings in the dominant chord for a climax and then we work our way back with a IV-I-V. What do V's want to do? Move to the tonic. So that last G7 pulls you back to the beginning and the tonic C7. And off you go again -- when you want to end just use two C7's and this brings you to an ending.

Good luck. Have fun.

 

[zontar]

Well, I am reminded of when I took classical lessons and had trouble learning how to tune nylon strings.
My teacher certainly seemed frustrated sometimes.

 

[lyla1953]

TBH - It sounds like to two of you need a longer term plan or revisit the plan you may have set up in the beginning. - I need a well defined plan and the disciplined approach when tackling stuff like this - It helped me starting out (with an instructor) to agree upon a method to follow. He was there to answer questions, add depth to the theory behind the lesson, adjust technique, correct mistakes AND set milestones and a ton of other support. . We used Ed Friedland's Method books and I have to say they were perfect in this setting. I also completed Ed's Building Walking Bass Lines book in this manner as well. Other than that - practice, practice practice - If you don't - you,re wasting time and money.

 

[Gadgetech]

I'm working on playing the chords within the C major scale: Major, minor, Dominant 7th, minor 6th, Major 6th, minor 7th, Major 7th and ninth. I believe the goal is to help me with improvisation.

 

[Dominic D]

My first and only bass instructor was frustrated that I wasn't immediately picking up on advance jazz theories. I was very nervous and self-conscious about taking lessons to begin with and it unfortunately left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

It sounds like your teacher is frustrated with you. Ask anybody who teaches, you have been frustrated with a student before. It is really unprofessional to throw your hands up and let your student know you are frustrated though.

Are you actually practicing what you are given at each lesson? I know that is mine, and many others, biggest gripe with teaching. It really feels like you are just wasting your time explaining the same concepts over and over again. The lessons are not where you learn, they just introduce concepts to you. Learning is done by the student at home on their own time.

Additionally, I think a good teacher should cause you to feel awkward and flip your head upside down. How else are they supposed to get you really thinking? My students always apologize when they freeze up and I try to tell them that I do this for their own good, they are not there to impress me. Thinking of something you are not prepared to do or of something totally different is a fantastic way to cover new concepts. If you keep doing the same thing you are just going in circles. Jeff Berlin teaches this way and I think it is fantastic, probably one of the best musical educators. However, many think he is a fool.

The best advice I can provide is to set a clear goal for yourself and explain this to your instructor. Then have him explain a clear path to this goal. Then work your way down the road together.

+1 to all the above posters by the way.

 

[Gadgetech]

It sounds like your teacher is frustrated with you. Ask anybody who teaches, you have been frustrated with a student before. It is really unprofessional to throw your hands up and let your student know you are frustrated though.

It wasn't extremely obvious, just picked up on something being off.

Are you actually practicing what you are given at each lesson? I know that is mine, and many others, biggest gripe with teaching. It really feels like you are just wasting your time explaining the same concepts over and over again. The lessons are not where you learn, they just introduce concepts to you. Learning is done by the student at home on their own time.

Yes, I'm pretty dedicated to practice when I'm in town. Try to practice each night and a couple times on Saturday and Sunday.

Additionally, I think a good teacher should cause you to feel awkward and flip your head upside down. How else are they supposed to get you really thinking? My students always apologize when they freeze up and I try to tell them that I do this for their own good, they are not there to impress me. Thinking of something you are not prepared to do or of something totally different is a fantastic way to cover new concepts. If you keep doing the same thing you are just going in circles. Jeff Berlin teaches this way and I think it is fantastic, probably one of the best musical educators. However, many think he is a fool.

The best advice I can provide is to set a clear goal for yourself and explain this to your instructor. Then have him explain a clear path to this goal. Then work your way down the road together.

+1 to all the above posters by the way.

I think much of it comes down to my head knowledge exceeds (sometimes far exceeds) my playing ability which I think is sometimes a handicap. I've played mostly sax and some piano for over 20 years, I also studied theory for a couple years in college. Playing a stringed instrument doesn't come easily to me for whatever reason. I enjoy it but my progress is slow, luckily my fingering and plucking technique has improved. Gotta keep practicing and practicing to learn what notes are which. I've learned that much like a piano, the fret board is a repetition of patterns, I just have a hard time figuring out the flow.

 

[smeet]

Do you WANT to learn how to improvise? If not, don't worry about it. Otherwise, start doing it. Just do it and you will get better, guaranteed. One reason kids improve so quickly is that they are not afraid to jump in and sound "bad". Lose that fear and you will start progressing faster than you thought you could. Just do, it, and when you do it, COMMIT. Play wrong notes with feeling, loudly. Soon the wrong notes will get less frequent and eventually go away.

By the way, what I'm talking about here is not jazz or improv theory. It's the attitude, the willingness to put it out there and wail from your soul. Without that, all the theoretical knowledge won't help much. With it, many unschooled musicians have mesmerized audiences.

 

[Big Brother]

I



Additionally, I think a good teacher should cause you to feel awkward and flip your head upside down. How else are they supposed to get you really thinking?

That is exactly why I have never had a good relationship with my music instructors, except for the unprofessional ones who just say, "Here, do this, this and then this, watch what happens... Now you try..."

I learned more in 1 minute from a friend who showed me how to make a basic R 3 5 7 shape and how to use it, and from 30 seconds of Bootsy's funk video (the middle, that's the funk!), than I did from any paid profesional lesson.

People learn differently and to me, confused time is just wasted time. If I was the Karate Kid I wouldn't have come back for a second day. I need to understand how something relates to the overall picture or it will never make sense to me.
Plant a seed with a simple technique to expand on, tell me where it is leading to and some things (scales, terms etc) I need to learn to make it work, then send me on my way. I'll come back far ahead of what you left me with.

I suspect a lot of perceived instructor frustration is due to this, I can't be alone...

 

[Big Brother]

To me this is ideal instruction.



I think a 5-10 minute daily lesson like this, along with a few related concepts to learn that expands on it, would send someone on their way about 3x faster than the standard hr/wk plan.

Everything you learn would be directly used right then and it would make sense in context.

My ideal format of a wildly productive 3 minute remote video lesson:

"(1 minute demo)...That's the funk. Now here's a few common funk scales and chord progressions, play those on top of these backing tracks and have some fun. A few ideas are in the audio appendix if your creativity runs dry. Remember to keep your hand technique like this instead of that and seeya tomorrow..."

 

[Lo-E]

TBH - It sounds like to two of you need a longer term plan or revisit the plan you may have set up in the beginning. - I need a well defined plan and the disciplined approach when tackling stuff like this - It helped me starting out (with an instructor) to agree upon a method to follow. He was there to answer questions, add depth to the theory behind the lesson, adjust technique, correct mistakes AND set milestones and a ton of other support.

This is absolutely true. To add to this, I would also say that a good student-teacher relationship includes an understanding that the long term plan is subject to change and to re-negotiation and that both parties should feel comfortable with mentioning that maybe the current path needs revision.

You mention in your OP that you were reluctant to try things your teacher asked you to try. In his defense, a music lesson is a safe environment in which to fall on your face. It's how you learn. It's his responsibility to challenge you and force you out of your comfort zone. It's your responsibility to, in turn, throw caution to the wind and fail. Safely. He won't judge you for it, but by seeing where you fall he gets a better sense of where you need help. He's not doing it to humiliate you or make you feel inadequate. I would suggest that you let him lead you places you might think you don't want to go. It's really important to be open to it and a lesson is the safest place you can possibly fall. Don't be afraid to crash the plane into the mountain. It will help you more than it hurts you.

I often have a busy schedule, but I try very hard to study with someone every couple of years, even if it's only for a short while. Because of my hectic schedule, I know I have left teachers frustrated at times. As far as I can tell, they've never hung on to that frustration for more than a lesson or two and then we moved on. As long as the table is open for discussion by both of you, I'm sure you can figure out a solution. Perhaps you should just ask him if he feels frustrated and see if you two can figure out a shift in direction you both can feel happy about....

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

That is exactly why I have never had a good relationship with my music instructors, except for the unprofessional ones who just say, "Here, do this, this and then this, watch what happens... Now you try..."

I learned more in 1 minute from a friend who showed me how to make a basic R 3 5 7 shape and how to use it, and from 30 seconds of Bootsy's funk video (the middle, that's the funk!), than I did from any paid profesional lesson.

People learn differently and to me, confused time is just wasted time. If I was the Karate Kid I wouldn't have come back for a second day. I need to understand how something relates to the overall picture or it will never make sense to me.
Plant a seed with a simple technique to expand on, tell me where it is leading to and some things (scales, terms etc) I need to learn to make it work, then send me on my way. I'll come back far ahead of what you left me with.

I suspect a lot of perceived instructor frustration is due to this, I can't be alone...

Go sit down and hammer out a riff, find something good and funky.

Got it?


Good. Odds are it is in 4/4. Now play the same part in 7/8 or 3/4.

You're head has been flipped, you are forced to think outside the box on the fly. This is something almost all players struggle to do on the fly and is the perfect thing to practice.

I did this the other day with a beginner student. I had a student play a song, we just we're running basic chord arpeggios over a basic ii-V-I. I had him then start on the 3rd instead of the root, then the 5th, then the 7th. He struggled initially but he understood the concept, his head had been flipped. I hope he applies that between the next time I see him as it will improve his playing immensely.

It is not about confusing people or presenting them with some kind of zen concept (or something they aren't familiar with.) It is all about expanding how you think. I hope that clarifies my point of view somewhat.

 

[Sam Todd]

My teacher was clearly frustrated in my first lesson with him. Not because I didn't try or was slow to understand..but he got really excited at my enthusiasm and kept wanting to go further and teach me more. He demands that I re-learn a lot that i've lost after time off.

He gave me almost two months of stuff to work on and told me I can't come back until it's under my finger tips. since then he's called to check on me and reminded me not to come back until I have it thoroughly worked on and in my fingers. For many reasons i really really respect that.

 

[Lownote38]

Don't waste money on lessons unless you can put in the practice time. Also, I agree that a teacher should never openly show frustration with you if they are professional. That is unless you're going to college for music. Then, be prepared to get a good lecture if you aren't working on the material assigned to you. You can't get a degree in music without practicing.

 

[MrLenny1]

You state that he asked you to learn 12 chords.
This is a good approach needed to be able to improvise.
A good teacher will save you years & years of fumbling around.

 

[mambo4]

Teacher: let's try some improvisation
Student: I can't really improvise
Teacher: let's try some songs you like
Student: I can't name any
Teacher: Here's 12 chords to learn, see you next week

sounds about right.
when you come back next week , having learned those notes for those chords,
he will probably have you improvise over the chords.

now if he didn't take the time to help you understand why he was doing this then that is an issue.