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Expanding my theory knowledge

#21
KingRazor said:
From thickest to thinnest it goes: E, A, D, G in standard tuning.

Most 5 strings are tuned B, E, A, D, G and 6 strings are B, E, A, D, G, C.


On topic:

I just tried something today. But before I say what I did I want you to understand how I got to this. The very first song I ever learned on bass was very simple, a 4 chord progression that repeated throughout the song. The progression went F, G, A#, C. I played those 4 notes on the bass over and over for months. I got to the point where I could recognize the notes A# and C by ear (which is how I can tell what a string is tuned to without a tuner). I used to play those two notes together because the sound of the A# moving to the C just sounded so right. I realized today that A# is flatted 7th of C............Sorry I'm too tired to know how this fits in, I'll fix this when post when I'm more awake. Bottom line: A#-C sounds good. :P
Click to expand...

OK, but when i buy new strings they are marked from g being the thickest, d , a , e . I not sure anymore. I always thought it was like that. Can some one explain that to me
:hyper:
 
#23
Benjamin188 said:
OK, but when i buy new strings they are marked from g being the thickest, d , a , e . I not sure anymore. I always thought it was like that. Can some one explain that to me
:hyper:
Click to expand...

It's always EADG from thickest to thinnest.

some string sets label their strings "First", "Second" etc...without reference to whether "First" means "lowest pitch/thickest" or "highest pitch/thinnest"...could you be conflating these lables?

alternately, the manufacturer put the strings in the wrong envelopes..
 
#24
Richard Lindsey said:
Actually, A# is NOT the "flatted 7th" of C. Bb is. You might think this is just a quibble, but this kind of thing does matter for seeing how all this fits together.

C=1
D=2
E=3
F=4
G=5
A=6
B=7

From this you can see that by definition, if you take C as your root or 1, an A--ANY kind of A, whether sharped, flatted, or natural--has to be some kind of 6th and can't be a 7th. And that a 7th, of whatever variety, has to be a B of some sort.
Click to expand...
You answered a question I didn't even ask. Thanks! :D

Also thanks to JTE for helping to "clear the fog" a bit more. Good stuff coming out in this thread!
 
#26
You can usually go by the melody- if it contains a bunch of thirds, sixths and seconds, you can bet it will be a maj7. A general assumption in rock, especially blues based rock, is to try the b7 first. If the tune sounds sort of crunchy, you can go with the b7. Some of the stuff that comes out of New Orleans is different- you'll see the use of both types, and b3rds against major thirds, so you have to use your ears, not your eyes.

the V chord will almost always be a b7.
 
#27
Richard Lindsey said:
Actually, A# is NOT the "flatted 7th" of C. Bb is. You might think this is just a quibble, but this kind of thing does matter for seeing how all this fits together.

C=1
D=2
E=3
F=4
G=5
A=6
B=7

From this you can see that by definition, if you take C as your root or 1, an A--ANY kind of A, whether sharped, flatted, or natural--has to be some kind of 6th and can't be a 7th. And that a 7th, of whatever variety, has to be a B of some sort.
Click to expand...

One thing that confuses me about the whole sharp vs flat thing.

What is the IV chord of F? A# or Bb? and why is it that?
 
#28
KingRazor said:
One thing that confuses me about the whole sharp vs flat thing.

What is the IV chord of F? A# or Bb? and why is it that?
Click to expand...

Work out the F major scale. You have to use each letter once, AND use the whole-step/half-step formula (you DO know how to figure out the correct notes in any diatonic major scale, don't you? If not, don't worry about any other theory stuff until you do), That will make it clear not only whether it's A# or Bb, and WHY!!!

Do this yourself, don't let someone just tell you the answer.

John
 
#29
Benjamin188 said:
OK, but when i buy new strings they are marked from g being the thickest, d , a , e . I not sure anymore. I always thought it was like that. Can some one explain that to me
:hyper:
Click to expand...

If you buy a typical medium gauge 4 string set, they'll be 45/65/85/105. This is NOT American Wire Gauge, it's the nominal diameter of the string in thousandths of an inch. That 45 G string isn't a 45 gauge string, it's a string that's 0.045" in diameter. The next string is 0.065", so it's bigger and it's the D string.

John
 
#31
JTE said:
If you buy a typical medium gauge 4 string set, they'll be 45/65/85/105. This is NOT American Wire Gauge, it's the nominal diameter of the string in thousandths of an inch. That 45 G string isn't a 45 gauge string, it's a string that's 0.045" in diameter. The next string is 0.065", so it's bigger and it's the D string.

John
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying that, JTE. I always thought it had something to do with gauges.
 
#32
mambo4 said:
It's always EADG from thickest to thinnest.

some string sets label their strings "First", "Second" etc...without reference to whether "First" means "lowest pitch/thickest" or "highest pitch/thinnest"...could you be conflating these lables?

alternately, the manufacturer put the strings in the wrong envelopes..
Click to expand...

Alright I'll take your word for it. LOL, I was always thinking that my g chord was my thickest. When I head back to a shop I'll keep that in my mind.
- Off the topic I loved the new avenged sevenfold ablum. Nightmare
- god rest Rev:crying::)
 
#33
JTE said:
If you buy a typical medium gauge 4 string set, they'll be 45/65/85/105. This is NOT American Wire Gauge, it's the nominal diameter of the string in thousandths of an inch. That 45 G string isn't a 45 gauge string, it's a string that's 0.045" in diameter. The next string is 0.065", so it's bigger and it's the D string.

John
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up :hyper:
:hyper:I'll never think the same.LOL
:bassist:
 
#34
Richard Lindsey said:
Not to be harsh, but I just explained exactly that in the material you just quoted! I mean, EXACTLY that. Please read it again.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I was ignoring something I already knew because I didn't fully comprehend it.

I used to use the terms "sharp" and "flat" interchangeably. I was honestly confused as to why both terms were used, so I just started referring to all accidentals as sharps. Whenever someone would say "B flat" I'd just change it in my mind to "A sharp". Now I see why that was a mistake.
 
#36
JTE said:
Work out the F major scale. You have to use each letter once, AND use the whole-step/half-step formula (you DO know how to figure out the correct notes in any diatonic major scale, don't you? If not, don't worry about any other theory stuff until you do), That will make it clear not only whether it's A# or Bb, and WHY!!!

Do this yourself, don't let someone just tell you the answer.

John
Click to expand...
Regarding this and the whole duplication of notes in scales, one thing I've been curious of is this:

The major scale (Ionian mode) between F and G: Is it written as F# or Gb generally? I've noticed that it's the only major scale that has duplicate notes regardless of whether you write it as F# or Gb.

F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-F-F#

Gb-Ab-Bb-B-Db-Eb-F-Gb
 
#37
KingRazor said:
Regarding this and the whole duplication of notes in scales, one thing I've been curious of is this:

The major scale (Ionian mode) between F and G: Is it written as F# or Gb generally? I've noticed that it's the only major scale that has duplicate notes regardless of whether you write it as F# or Gb.

F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-F-F#

Gb-Ab-Bb-B-Db-Eb-F-Gb
Click to expand...
F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E#-F#

Gb-Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F-Gb

Just add sharps or flats as you move up or down through your cycle of fifths. Keep following the patterns and this is what you come up with.

For keys with sharps:
0# = C
1# = G (F#)
2# = D (F#,C#)
3# = A (F#,C#,G#)
4# = E (F#,C#,G#,D#)
5# = B (F#,C#,G#,D#,A#)
6# = F# (F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#)
7# = I'll let you figure this one out. ;)

See how that works? For keys with flats:
0b = C
1b = F (Bb)
2b = Bb (Bb,Eb)
3b = Eb (Bb,Eb,Ab)
4b = Ab (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db)
5b = Db (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb)
6b = Gb (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb)
7b = I'll let you figure this one out as well. :D
 
#39
mambo4 said:
It's always EADG from thickest to thinnest.

some string sets label their strings "First", "Second" etc...without reference to whether "First" means "lowest pitch/thickest" or "highest pitch/thinnest"...could you be conflating these lables?

alternately, the manufacturer put the strings in the wrong envelopes..
Click to expand...
Or somebody's bought violin strings by mistake. :D
 
#40
bassybill said:
F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E#-F#

Gb-Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F-Gb

Just add sharps or flats as you move up or down through your cycle of fifths. Keep following the patterns and this is what you come up with.

For keys with sharps:
0# = C
1# = G (F#)
2# = D (F#,C#)
3# = A (F#,C#,G#)
4# = E (F#,C#,G#,D#)
5# = B (F#,C#,G#,D#,A#)
6# = F# (F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#)
7# = I'll let you figure this one out. ;)

See how that works? For keys with flats:
0b = C
1b = F (Bb)
2b = Bb (Bb,Eb)
3b = Eb (Bb,Eb,Ab)
4b = Ab (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db)
5b = Db (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb)
6b = Gb (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb)
7b = I'll let you figure this one out as well. :D
Click to expand...

You can DO that?

*mind blown*

Umm, this changes my perspective on things a bit.
 

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