Experiencing death.

[Relic]

Since the OP doesn't want a religious discussion, even after stating his own personal views on the afterlife, here's what I believe happens in non-religious terms.

Imagine you are hungry and have your favorite dish served in front of you. My favorite dish is pizza by the way. The average person will eat it and be satisfied. They are not afraid to eat it. Nor are they panicked at the thought that after eating it, the dish is gone and they cannot eat it anymore.

After finishing the dish, do you see it? Probably not. Is it gone forever? Not quite. It's still there. Some individuals may even say they feel its presence still. Even if the dish is no longer on the plate, it is present. Just not in the same state as it was before.

Don't be afraid of enjoying life. Do so while it lasts, however short or long that time is. Even if there is an afterlife, and even though I have my views on that I won't explicitly express them here, you are certain that you at least have one lifetime. Enjoy it.

LOL the pizza analogy made me hungry.
My view is that the pizza is no longer the pizza, but still exists in a different form (kind of what you're saying as well) - it's broken down by your digestive system and used by your body. It's therefore transformed but not gone, elements of it may even one day be part of another pizza. The same holds true for energy. It's never created or destroyed but always just is through perpetual transformation. Our bodies are matter and they are energy, we will never be destroyed or gone, just transformed..

 

[Papa Dangerous]

Since the OP doesn't want a religious discussion, even after stating his own personal views on the afterlife, here's what I believe happens in non-religious terms.

Imagine you are hungry and have your favorite dish served in front of you. My favorite dish is pizza by the way. The average person will eat it and be satisfied. They are not afraid to eat it. Nor are they panicked at the thought that after eating it, the dish is gone and they cannot eat it anymore.

After finishing the dish, do you see it? Probably not. Is it gone forever? Not quite. It's still there. Some individuals may even say they feel its presence still. Even if the dish is no longer on the plate, it is present. Just not in the same state as it was before.

Don't be afraid of enjoying life. Do so while it lasts, however short or long that time is. Even if there is an afterlife, and even though I have my views on that I won't explicitly express them here, you are certain that you at least have one lifetime. Enjoy it.

+1 Great metaphor! I will certainly use this one day if it applies to something in conversation!

 

[Gaius46]

After much tequila and reading a little too much physics I once pondered the thought that since our bodily processes slow down as we die perhaps our conception of the passage of time also slows down and in our frame of reference we never actually die. Things just continually wind down but never end - to the dying person at least.

I think I gotta lay off the tequila.


As someone once said you owe one death. There's nothing you can do about it other live the best life you can and when the time comes go with some grace

 

[Relic]

After much tequila and reading a little too much physics I once pondered the thought that since our bodily processes slow down as we die perhaps our conception of the passage of time also slows down and in our frame of reference we never actually die. Things just continually wind down but never end - to the dying person at least.

I think I gotta lay off the tequila.

Reminds me of the movie "Jacob's Ladder"

 

[Simo98]

After much tequila and reading a little too much physics I once pondered the thought that since our bodily processes slow down as we die perhaps our conception of the passage of time also slows down and in our frame of reference we never actually die. Things just continually wind down but never end - to the dying person at least.

I was going to post this, as I have experienced it before and thought it to be a death like situation, and its one of the ideas I have of what death may be like.

It makes a lot of sense to me, and having read a little on eastern philosophy related to death, it seems quite supportive. At least, it is one of my favoured theories.

Time slows down to a point where you no longer experience it as you once did, its not linear, everything just seems happens at the same time and could go on forever, not that there is a forever anymore, there just is.




Personally, when it comes to death, I'm in no hurry, but I am very anxious to find out what the experience is like.

 

[SactoBass]

Since the OP doesn't want a religious discussion, even after stating his own personal views on the afterlife, here's what I believe happens in non-religious terms.

Imagine you are hungry and have your favorite dish served in front of you. My favorite dish is pizza by the way. The average person will eat it and be satisfied. They are not afraid to eat it. Nor are they panicked at the thought that after eating it, the dish is gone and they cannot eat it anymore.

After finishing the dish, do you see it? Probably not. Is it gone forever? Not quite. It's still there. Some individuals may even say they feel its presence still. Even if the dish is no longer on the plate, it is present. Just not in the same state as it was before.

Only on Talkbass could the answers to the universe be found in a pizza. (Hey, it makes just as much sense as all the other crazy stories and beliefs we humans have conjured up over the millennia.) Rock on, Talkbass!

 

[Bloodhammer]

Give me ambiguity or give me something else!

 

[MisterWraith]

Thank you all for your responses thus far.



That's the point. It's a state of not knowing, not being capable of knowing. That is the antithesis of everything we're familiar with during our short lives (unconscious state of sleep notwithstanding), hence the pain I described in the OP in not being able to comprehend it. It's not an issue of not enjoying life - on the contrary, I enjoy it as much as I possibly can, specifically because of this - it's an issue of fully understanding what it means to not exist.

And for the record, I get the same feeling when thinking about the transition point between awake and asleep as I get when thinking about the transition point between life and death. The concept is fundamentally the same, except in the case of death, you don't wake up. When sleeping, there is no perception of time or being or anything (unless dreaming), so you "Jump" from the last moment of consciousness to the next. With no next moment of consciousness, there is, theoretically, an eternity of null perception. Isn't that an intimidating notion?

Personally, though I know I don't get any real choice in the matter I can understand this. In the sense that I love living... I know that either there won't be a me to miss me, or there will be somthething else beyond.. My only wish is that I get to live long enough to feel ready... I would like the day I go to be shortly after I hit a point, where it's all become like a song I've heard enough times. (Kind of Like Stairway to Heaven ironically).

 

[hrodbert696]

Oh, do you? And how do you know that your sentience will come to an end?

Nice try. That's like opening a discussion of plant life - while forbidding any reference to botany. Or biology. Or even science.

MM

That's easy. There is no known example of any living being retaining sentience after death.
Based on statistics alone, you're not very likely to remain sentient after death.

First of all, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. I've had to have my wrist slapped over that a couple of times in my academic career. If you're not satisfied with the evidence for the proposition of sentience after death, then doubting it is perfectly justified. Dogmatic insistence that there cannot be any such thing, however, is not.

Secondly, all kinds of people have gone brain-dead and then been revived with continuity of consciousness (including, it seems, one of our bass brothers). If consciousness were mere physical brain function, I would have assumed their memories and identity would be wiped clean by the experience.

Thirdly, yes, TB rules forbid discussion of religion. That does become a bit of a gag rule here since a lot of us are barred from saying what we really think on the question while others whose beliefs don't count as "religion" can carry on freely. Just suggesting that the OP may get a more productive and rounded discussion in a different forum than TB on questions like this. Unless, of course, he chose to post it here precisely because of that rule...

And fourthly.... Shakespeare.

"To die, to sleep, no more... to sleep, perhaps to dream. Ay, there's the rub. For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come, when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause..."

 

[Papa Dangerous]

First of all, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. I've had to have my wrist slapped over that a couple of times in my academic career. If you're not satisfied with the evidence for the proposition of sentience after death, then doubting it is perfectly justified. Dogmatic insistence that there cannot be any such thing, however, is not.

Secondly, all kinds of people have gone brain-dead and then been revived with continuity of consciousness (including, it seems, one of our bass brothers). If consciousness were mere physical brain function, I would have assumed their memories and identity would be wiped clean by the experience.

Thirdly, yes, TB rules forbid discussion of religion. That does become a bit of a gag rule here since a lot of us are barred from saying what we really think on the question while others whose beliefs don't count as "religion" can carry on freely. Just suggesting that the OP may get a more productive and rounded discussion in a different forum than TB on questions like this. Unless, of course, he chose to post it here precisely because of that rule...

And fourthly.... Shakespeare.

"To die, to sleep, no more... to sleep, perhaps to dream. Ay, there's the rub. For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come, when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause..."

If someone goes brain-dead, most likely due to lack of oxygen, is put on a respirator which does the breathing for them, they will most likely remain brain dead. Once the brain has been damaged to a certain state, there is no return. They will have a test done on them to see if there is brain activity. If nothing, than they are blank slates. You can keep that person hooked up to a respirator for 100 years, and they will continue to have a heart beat because a machine is doing it for them.

If a person dies, is put on a respirator before they suffer much brain damage, than they can continue to function after they are taking off a machine. A person who becomes brain dead usually enters that state because of a lack of oxygen. If an air supply can be reinstated before they reach the level of being brain dead, they can continue life, but possibly with some major set backs.

This brings up a great point though. If the person is in a vegetable state, but they are on a respirator, does that mean they are dead? They have no brain function due to the tests, but their bodies are still giving off vital signs - thus they have life.
Personally, I think that person is dead, and their energy has moved on, or is moving on. As important as the heart is to the body, I think the brain is the most important. That is where our conscious lies - which leaves me to believe it is where the subconscious/soul/inner energy/whatever lies. Once the brain is not showing activity, the time has passed on that person.

Sadly, people will keep loved ones on a respirator for months, years just because they will not accept it. Sometimes they do it for the money as well.

 

[Jazz Ad]

That's the legal definition of death, no brain activity.
It is what allows organs to be harvested from a body.

 

[Muaguana]

Thirdly, yes, TB rules forbid discussion of religion. That does become a bit of a gag rule here since a lot of us are barred from saying what we really think on the question while others whose beliefs don't count as "religion" can carry on freely. Just suggesting that the OP may get a more productive and rounded discussion in a different forum than TB on questions like this. Unless, of course, he chose to post it here precisely because of that rule...

I chose to post here because I'm dead broke, on the verge of getting evicted from my apartment, and can't scrounge up $25 to pay for a supporting membership so I can post this in the lobby where I have had religious discussions in the past (productive ones, at that.)

Please refrain from making assumptions about my character when you know nothing about me. Thank you.

Edit: Furthermore, if you were to read my question carefully, you would notice that I specify my target audience in the word choice. I'm not addressing people who are religious, because TB doesn't allow religious discussion outside the lobby. It's perfectly possible to have a secular discussion about death; it doesn't mean anyone's beliefs are "right" or "wrong", we're just having discourse in a specific context. If you can't help but bring religion into this thread, don't post. Not because I have no interest in hearing what you have to say (though some of the PM's I've received make me want to bang my head against a wall,) but because I don't want the thread closed. It's very simple. (Talking to you, MysticMichael.)

 

[BassChuck]

I don't fear death. I fear the moment before death and realising that I might have lived better.

Do what you can with the time you have. Try to be satisfied with each day. Love the people around you, even if they can't do anything for you. Be human.

 

[Michael Jewels]

I don't fear death. I fear the moment before death and realising that I might have lived better.

Do what you can with the time you have. Try to be satisfied with each day. Love the people around you, even if they can't do anything for you. Be human.

Best post in this thread, in my opinion.

Mike

 

[Funky Ghost]

I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.

 

[Staccato]

Hey, we need lots of hobbies (like bass, or the TB forums) to keep us occupied-during our time. Let's not fear it-let's enjoy the time that we're alive.

Cuz, if we stay the course-we'll outlive most of our friends, and our kids will mostly ignore our existence. Hobbies!

 

[RonGillman3]

I'm 18 now, and due to circumstances that have happened in my life, mainly from my doing, I have accepted death. I used to be afraid of it, but I learned whats the point. I kept myself to safe, and, if I hadn't gotten over that fear I wouldn't be the person I am today.
Just like Bass Chuck said "Try to be satisfied with each day" thats what I do, I live life to the fullest each day just as if its going to be my last. I do what I love,everyday and with all that I can honestly say that if I were to die tomorrow or right now, I would be happy with my life.
So Muagana think along the lines of "Enjoy Life today, yesterday is gone, and tomorrow may never come."

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

I just wanted to pop in from an extended absence to say that this is a great thread. Keep the ideas rolling.

I've been struggling with a similar issue of late, primarily trying to come to terms with the fact that death could come at any moment, regardless of what might be taking place in my life at that time. It's been tempting to live life waiting for the end to come sometimes, but it's such a waste of it. Life is too full of good to ignore it all; do you ride a train without ever looking out the window? It's not about the destination, it's about the journey.

Considering that this thread has mostly been about the experience of not existing, however, my contribution bridges off a bit from that. It's a thought I've had as well, but at the moment there are too many great things I'm living for to be ready to ponder the end of this iteration of my existence. If it comes, then the game is up, but there is no reason to wait for the end of the game, and every reason to enjoy every moment of the game possible while it is in session.

 

[IconBasser]

I agree with the idea that death is the ultimate end and that your own conscious self-reflective perspective ceases to exist. I'm not really afraid of it at this point, I merely think that there's more for me to experience, enjoy, and create than I've experienced yet. As such, if I were to die tomorrow, I'd be disappointed. If the time comes that there is nothing more that I care to experience or do, I'll go to death willingly.

 

[Munjibunga]

I have a rather distressing fixation with the prospect of dying and the end of sentience. I've experienced panic attacks since I was an early child about this, often breaking down into sobs because my brain could not comprehend non-existence as it could comprehend (or at least, imagine) what it would feel like to have my throat sliced right down to the vertebrae. Feeling the flesh separating as the cold steel worked its way through, the searing pain of the wound, warm blood gushing over my skin and being absorbed by my shirt... that kind of vivid, my-neurons-are-in-that-body imagining.

It's not the thought of being dead, itself, that bothers me. It's the thought of my consciousness, which has existed my entire life and is all I've known and will ever know, ceasing to exist. I have similar panic attacks when imagining where "I" was prior to conception. Objectively, I know my life and my sentience are finite and must end. But imagining that ending literally makes my brain hurt that it triggers an even greater pain within my chest. I liken it to matter (consciousness) barely touching (comprehending) anti-matter (unconsciousness.)

But that's neither here nor there; this thread is about you, not me. Thus, I ask you, TB'ers: Have you imagined your own death in such depth that you could feel your very consciousness disappearing as your brain dies? Can you fully grasp the thought of not existing? If not, then what are your thoughts on consciousness and death? Or consciousness and pre-life?

As per TB rules, let's keep religion out of this, so please no one bring ideas of an afterlife into this. It's difficult for me to word exactly what I am trying to convey in this subject, as many of the concepts I think of have no words associated with them, so if none of this is clear, please ask for clarification.

Thank you for your time.

In 1994 I experienced my own death. I was gone for about 3 minutes, and was revived by electric shock (defibrillator). I know they had to try it several times from the multiple burn marks left on my chest.

That was the most phenomenal experience of my life. The feeling was of utter peace, with no anxiety, no fear, no regret and no physical sensation, including pain. The intensity of the experience surpasses the ability to describe it in words. Take the sensations I described and multiply by a million.

I was in considerable pain before I passed, but it evaporated at the time I went black. I experienced the "tube of light" which I attribute to tunnel vision from losing consciousness and waning brain activity. I did not see god or relatives during the experience, but the level of peacefulness makes it easy for me to see why people would believe in god after having the experience.

When I was brought back, I told my family not to be offended, but that I would rather be where I was. I had to ask how long I was gone. They could have told me a week and I would have believed it. There was no sense of time. I was left with a couple impressions from the experience.

One was that what I had experienced for that short time was reality, and what we experience here is artifice. That makes fodder for deep thought about what "reality" is. Another is that the world (def: all that is), is exactly as it's supposed to be. All the bad things along with the good things are perfect.

I have never been afraid to die, and am even less afraid to die now. In a former life, I had a girlfriend who harbors the same fears you do. My experience drove home the fact that death is a natural part of life. It's a cool experience. The coolest of my life, so far.

I have no idea if there is life after death. If there is, fantastic. If there isn't, then I want to live a life that leaves the world a better place as a legacy. I can't attribute the intense peacefulness of the experience to god but, as I said, it's easy for me to see how someone would. I'm just not driven by any need to say I know that god exists.

As Joseph Adler said (paraphrasing), you live on in the legacy you leave. You should read a book called "Seth Speaks" by Jane Roberts for an interesting view on human "pre-existence." I don't believe any of it, but it makes for great mental masturbation. When I talk to my 13-year-old daughter about events that happened before she was born, she asks, "Was I born yet?" to which I answer, "No, sweetie, you were dead then." This, of course, pisses my wife clean off.

Really the question is irrelevant. You have no way of recollecting any pre-conception existence even if there was one. So let it go. You were dead then. That may be what it's like when you die. You won't mind. You'll be dead. So why worry about it now?

For those of you who are going to argue that I wasn't really dead, it may be true. I don't know. But had they not made the effort to revive me, you wouldn't be reading this story.