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Explain the Fender Bass VI
- Thread starter Jason42
- Start date
I took the time to add a shim to the neck, and I also traded bridges between my Squire Jaguar so I now have the style of bridge that is on the Vintage Modified instead of the Classic Vibes one it came with and then reversed it and now I finally have it intonated properly (so nice to play at the fifth fret on the E string and not sound a little sharp). The E string is still a little floppy - so I ordered the La Bella flats - $90cdn all in, they should arrive in a couple weeks, I made the jump after hearing them finally on YouTube. I will post impressions on them once I finally have them.
I am still planning on upgrading the bridge - but the vintage modified one is much better than the Classic Vibes one for the VI. My Jaguar plays much better with the new bridge which is awesome.
I think because I have already spent 12 years playing guitar (20 on bass) I did not have many issues moving to it - my style of bass was actually fairly adaptable to it (I still mostly play it finger style the same way I play my four strings) the caveat being I switch more to a guitar finger picking style when I want to get the most out additional strings.
I was most surprised by how funky it plays - it is my go to instrument now for playing live, though my 4 strings still are the driving force in the studio (the VI is much more of an augment overdub instrument in that capacity).
I am still planning on upgrading the bridge - but the vintage modified one is much better than the Classic Vibes one for the VI. My Jaguar plays much better with the new bridge which is awesome.
I think because I have already spent 12 years playing guitar (20 on bass) I did not have many issues moving to it - my style of bass was actually fairly adaptable to it (I still mostly play it finger style the same way I play my four strings) the caveat being I switch more to a guitar finger picking style when I want to get the most out additional strings.
I was most surprised by how funky it plays - it is my go to instrument now for playing live, though my 4 strings still are the driving force in the studio (the VI is much more of an augment overdub instrument in that capacity).
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John used a Bass VI on Helter Skelter and I hate to say it sounds terrible! Look for Helter Skelter isolated bass on YouTube! I think George did better on Back In the USSR, but I haven't heard that in a long time. You gave me something to look up!
I agree, when isolated, it's pretty rough, but Helter Skelter's Bass VI tone is a perfect match for the guitar tone and vibe of the song!
The thing is that playing rough or terrible can be effective - there is a reason why Trout Mask Replica regularly makes top 10. In the world of sonic exploration it can be a texture when used effectively as demonstrated in Helter Skelter - or by Captain Beefheart, Tom Waits, Nick Cave, etc.
Of course there is a difference between doing it intentionally and something sounding rough because the player is a beginner - if you listen to the isolated bass on Helter Skelter you can tell that John is a decent player, but his aggressive technique is leading to things like zero sustain in the bass register, lots of percussive clicks and sometimes missed notes; most of which is covered up in the mix and the overall effect of this rough aggressive playing gives the song it's well known menace.
Of course there is a difference between doing it intentionally and something sounding rough because the player is a beginner - if you listen to the isolated bass on Helter Skelter you can tell that John is a decent player, but his aggressive technique is leading to things like zero sustain in the bass register, lots of percussive clicks and sometimes missed notes; most of which is covered up in the mix and the overall effect of this rough aggressive playing gives the song it's well known menace.
Great thread!
I’ve been fascinated by the VI, since first seeing one in the Fender catalog, circa 1967. When I was first learning guitar, someone told my father that I should double on bass, because there’s always demand for bass players. When I saw the VI it occurred to me that this would make for an easy transition to bass. However, I don’t think I ever actually saw one, until many years later.
I finally got close with a Jaguar Baritone Custom, which was a 28.5” E-E instrument. I used it as a bass, but with that exceptionally short scale, the low E was too floppy. Later on, I bought a Custom Shop VI, which had its merits, but I never bonded with it. For reasons that evade logic, it just didn’t sound the way I wanted and didn’t sound half as good as the Jaguar Baritone Custom. So, for some years, I was six-less. One day, I decided to try eBay; lo and behold, there had been a run of Fender Japan VIs imported and I scored one in Candy Apple Red, with a matching headstock.
I’ve had several Fender Japan instruments and have always admired their quality. The VI was true to form, although the pickups were piercingly bright, something that was true of a Fender Japan Jaguar I had owned a few years earlier. I bought some Fender Pure Vintage Jaguar pickups and that made the character much more to my liking.
I can use mine as a bass and, depending upon how I select pickups, etc. the sound can go from a pretty convincing P-Bass thump to something that sounds like a Fender Jaguar’s uncle, and all points in between. I use LaBella flats and these seem to fit well with my tastes in sound and feel.
In my humble opinion, it’s a Swiss Army Knife of an instrument. It can fill the role of a bass, but it takes a bit of practice before you can find that sound. It is perfect for TicTac bass, if you use a pick. It can get an amazingly Funk sound, albeit slapping and popping are not really its greatest strength. It can do pretty much anything a B-B baritone can do, except hit the highest 4th of the range, but it makes for a great baritone effect in many tunes. Obviously the Duane Eddy inspired material is right up its alley, and it’s perfect for Surf. Jack Nitzche’s The Lonely Surfer features a VI, played by David Gates, and the sound is great.
Fairly early on in those thread, someone posted that it’s a good idea not to over analyze it, and think that is right on the money. Every instrument is a compromise, of some sort or another. The VI is good at many things, but it isn’t going to sound exactly like a P-Bass, a J-Bass, or anything else. If I got a call for a bass gig, I’d probably take it, play fingerstyle through a bass amp and it would do fine. IMO, it is worthy of being considered a bass (which really describes a tonal range, not an instrument).
Because of some tendonitis, I am restricted to 30” scale basses. While I miss some of my old 34” basses, I can’t say that I suffer in any way, because of the short scales of my basses. I have a CIJ Mustang, which sounds surprisingly good, dead stock. When my orthopedic surgeon suggested that I restrict myself to short scale basses, I had a short scale Warwick Corvette fretless, made to my specs. It has J-Style pickups, passive tone controls and has tremendous sustain. The VI fills a slightly different niche, but holds its own as a bass, and is more versatile than the Mustang. It’s really an excellent instrument.
I’ve been fascinated by the VI, since first seeing one in the Fender catalog, circa 1967. When I was first learning guitar, someone told my father that I should double on bass, because there’s always demand for bass players. When I saw the VI it occurred to me that this would make for an easy transition to bass. However, I don’t think I ever actually saw one, until many years later.
I finally got close with a Jaguar Baritone Custom, which was a 28.5” E-E instrument. I used it as a bass, but with that exceptionally short scale, the low E was too floppy. Later on, I bought a Custom Shop VI, which had its merits, but I never bonded with it. For reasons that evade logic, it just didn’t sound the way I wanted and didn’t sound half as good as the Jaguar Baritone Custom. So, for some years, I was six-less. One day, I decided to try eBay; lo and behold, there had been a run of Fender Japan VIs imported and I scored one in Candy Apple Red, with a matching headstock.
I’ve had several Fender Japan instruments and have always admired their quality. The VI was true to form, although the pickups were piercingly bright, something that was true of a Fender Japan Jaguar I had owned a few years earlier. I bought some Fender Pure Vintage Jaguar pickups and that made the character much more to my liking.
I can use mine as a bass and, depending upon how I select pickups, etc. the sound can go from a pretty convincing P-Bass thump to something that sounds like a Fender Jaguar’s uncle, and all points in between. I use LaBella flats and these seem to fit well with my tastes in sound and feel.
In my humble opinion, it’s a Swiss Army Knife of an instrument. It can fill the role of a bass, but it takes a bit of practice before you can find that sound. It is perfect for TicTac bass, if you use a pick. It can get an amazingly Funk sound, albeit slapping and popping are not really its greatest strength. It can do pretty much anything a B-B baritone can do, except hit the highest 4th of the range, but it makes for a great baritone effect in many tunes. Obviously the Duane Eddy inspired material is right up its alley, and it’s perfect for Surf. Jack Nitzche’s The Lonely Surfer features a VI, played by David Gates, and the sound is great.
Fairly early on in those thread, someone posted that it’s a good idea not to over analyze it, and think that is right on the money. Every instrument is a compromise, of some sort or another. The VI is good at many things, but it isn’t going to sound exactly like a P-Bass, a J-Bass, or anything else. If I got a call for a bass gig, I’d probably take it, play fingerstyle through a bass amp and it would do fine. IMO, it is worthy of being considered a bass (which really describes a tonal range, not an instrument).
Because of some tendonitis, I am restricted to 30” scale basses. While I miss some of my old 34” basses, I can’t say that I suffer in any way, because of the short scales of my basses. I have a CIJ Mustang, which sounds surprisingly good, dead stock. When my orthopedic surgeon suggested that I restrict myself to short scale basses, I had a short scale Warwick Corvette fretless, made to my specs. It has J-Style pickups, passive tone controls and has tremendous sustain. The VI fills a slightly different niche, but holds its own as a bass, and is more versatile than the Mustang. It’s really an excellent instrument.
Has anyone upgraded their Bass VIs? The nut on mine came loose. It still fits relatively snug in the slot and the string tension holds in place no problem.
But, seeing as how I have the opportunity to upgrade, any thoughts?
But, seeing as how I have the opportunity to upgrade, any thoughts?
Never hurts to put a nicer bone, nubone, graphite, etc... nut on there. I haven't upgraded mine as the original plastic one is holding up fine for now. I just fine tuned and smoothed up the slots for my string gauge and put some graphite in the slots for extra slip. If and when it gives out or I find myself with a lot of extra time, I will change the nut on it and a couple other basses.
I need to dig into the Terje Rypdal stuff some more!
Roy Babbington is definitely my Bass VI idol - I probably would have gotten rid of mine if it weren't for him. Here's a shot I found on the internet:
The bass is so beautiful in the vid you and I posted and also in the Switzerland 1974 concert. I got to meet him earlier this year and wanted to ask him a bunch of questions but didn't get the chance. Did some digging on the internet and wrote about it in my blog:
Bassist Roy Babbington
Did Babbington ditch the bass vi on Bundles? Sounds like a standard 4 to me!
Nah, it's in the Montreux '74 DVD with Holdsworth:
And he's pictured with the Bass VI in the liner notes for British Tour '75, including a pic with the whole band including John Etheridge, the guitarist who replaced Allan Holdsworth after Bundles was recorded.
That's what's amazing to me about Roy Babbington's use of the Bass VI - it shows what the instrument is capable of. I think it's so cool that two upright bassists (Jack Bruce & Roy Babbington) chose the Bass VI as their instrument - I guess they weren't used to anything other than the upright at the point so any electric bass would require an adjustment.
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That could be - I'm not talking about tuning - the bottom four strings are exactly the same as a P-Bass - it's getting used to playing it with fingers of the right hand that impresses me! And getting such a fat sound! It basically is a regular 4-string bass, just with two extra high strings.
OK, I've heard some of this stuff before - will listen again - love it! He's playing with a pick - that's probably how I would do it if I were to play mine regularly but I have done it with fingers - I think I'm not as adaptable as Roy Babbington...
I have read most of the posts here about tuning but I am still a little confused. The way I understand it is a regular common guitar is tuned e below the 3rd ledger line on the treble clef to e the top space of the treble clef and sounds as such. The fender bass VI is tuned to the same written range as a guitar but sounds an octave lower. A regular normal 4 string bass is tuned from e below the bass staff to g the top space on the bass staff but sounds and octave lower which is the same as the contra bass. Correct?
Larry
Larry
My understanding is that the regular bass guitar is tuned an octave below a regular guitar. The Bass VI is tuned the same way, with two extra high strings, in the same relative tuning as a regular guitar. The EADG strings of the Bass VI would be read the same way they would on a regular bass.
Another way to think about it - the low E on a Bass VI is tuned the same as the low E on a Fender Precision, Jazz, etc.
Not according to Wiki. It states the electric bass is tuned like I said but sounds an octave lower. From my old orchestration days this is the same as an upright bass.
