External cab for my iPad Modeler

[TimoBatis]

So I've been learning to play Bass using Amplitube Free for iPad and also a Vox AP2-BS and I was considering buying a small modeling Amp (A Rumble Studio 40), then I came across BIAS Amp 2 and BIAS FX and realized how good they were.

My Bass is connected to the iPad on the headphone jack via an iRig interface, which has a headphones output.

What are my options in order to hear the BIAS FX modeled amps on external speakers, without using headphones?

Thanks guys.

 

[agedhorse]

You will need a power amplifier (or the aux in or the effects return) of an bass amp.

 

[TimoBatis]

You will need a power amplifier (or the aux in or the effects return) of an bass amp.

How do you wire those things? from my iPad all the way to external speaker, and also, why kind of speakers? I was even thinking on buying an empty cab and get a brand new speaker for it, but I don't know where to start.

 

[agedhorse]

If you don't know where to start, you will want to strongly consider proven approaches and technology rather than trying to reinvent the wheel not knowing how the wheel is supposed to work.

iPad headphone output (taking only one of the two headphone channels if you are intending to run mono) to the power amp input (or effects return of a bass amp). From the power amp output to the speaker(s).\

You will need suitable cables for the equipment you choose to use.

 

[abarson]

The output from your iRig headphone jack isn't enough to drive a speaker: you need a power amplifier to drive the speaker. A combo amp (like the Fender Rumble you mentioned) is a one-box solution combining the power amp and speaker.

Some combos (like the Fender Rumble series) have an AUXiliary input that would be appropriate for connecting your iRig. You will need a cable with an 1/8" plug at one end for the iRig and the appropriate sized plug at the other end to the combo.

Grabbing some random cabinet and some random speaker is a sure-fire recipe for disappointment, as a speaker is selected for its specific characteristics and the cabinet is designed around it. If low cost is your motivation, get a used bass combo.

 

[TimoBatis]

If you don't know where to start, you will want to strongly consider proven approaches and technology rather than trying to reinvent the wheel not knowing how the wheel is supposed to work.

iPad headphone output (taking only one of the two headphone channels if you are intending to run mono) to the power amp input (or effects return of a bass amp). From the power amp output to the speaker(s).\

You will need suitable cables for the equipment you choose to use.

Everyone starts on anything at some point.
I just want to hear the same tones I get on my headphones when I practice my Bass, but on an external speaker/cab without introducing additional character.
I know I can buy a Bass Amp and connect the iPad to the Aux jack but it won't sound the same, not to mention I will be paying for an Amp that I won't be using. I also know I can ditch the iPad software and use a Fender Rumble, but I like the BIAS apps.

Maybe the solution is to get an iRig iPad interface with 1/4 FX output, to a Power Amp, then to a generic Bass cab with 1x12 or 2x12 Bass speakers. If a configuration like that is something that would let me have my iPad tones as clean as possible on the speakers, then I don't see it too complicated,, I might need some ideas on what numbers to be aware of (ohms, watts, etc) so they match and I don't burn stuff, and perhaps some pointers.

 

[agedhorse]

If the iPad tones include speaker modeling (most do) you will want a less voiced speaker (more or less "flat response", though those don't really exist nor are they that critical).

Just don't expect the tone to be anything close to identical in the speaker.

 

[abarson]

Everyone starts on anything at some point.
I just want to hear the same tones I get on my headphones when I practice my Bass, but on an external speaker/cab without introducing additional character.
I know I can buy a Bass Amp and connect the iPad to the Aux jack but it won't sound the same, not to mention I will be paying for an Amp that I won't be using. I also know I can ditch the iPad software and use a Fender Rumble, but I like the BIAS apps.

Maybe the solution is to get an iRig iPad interface with 1/4 FX output, to a Power Amp, then to a generic Bass cab with 1x12 or 2x12 Bass speakers. If a configuration like that is something that would let me have my iPad tones as clean as possible on the speakers, then I don't see it too complicated,, I might need some ideas on what numbers to be aware of (ohms, watts, etc) so they match and I don't burn stuff, and perhaps some pointers.

I don't understand this. Forget the Rumble Studio with the built-in modeling and get a regular Rumble combo. Plug your bass into the iRig, the iRig into your iPad for app processing, and the iRig headphone output into the Aux input of the combo. All you need is a 1/8" to 1/8" patch cable, done.
Why do you think this "won't sound the same"?

 

[TimoBatis]

If the iPad tones include speaker modeling (most do) you will want a less voiced speaker (more or less "flat response", though those don't really exist nor are they that critical).

Just don't expect the tone to be anything close to identical in the speaker.

The cab modeling can be turned Off, I’ve checked that.
I went to Celestion .com and checked some bass speakers, so I though I could make a DIY cab with one or two of those, and use it with my iPad, then from you I learned about Power Amps and realized that this is what I need in the middle. I’m not going to place orders right now, I just wanted to know what would be potential approaches and decide the best one later.

 

[TimoBatis]

I don't understand this. Forget the Rumble Studio with the built-in modeling and get a regular Rumble combo. Plug your bass into the iRig, the iRig into your iPad for app processing, and the iRig headphone output into the Aux input of the combo. All you need is a 1/8" to 1/8" patch cable, done.
Why do you think this "won't sound the same"?

I don’t know, be

I don't understand this. Forget the Rumble Studio with the built-in modeling and get a regular Rumble combo. Plug your bass into the iRig, the iRig into your iPad for app processing, and the iRig headphone output into the Aux input of the combo. All you need is a 1/8" to 1/8" patch cable, done.
Why do you think this "won't sound the same"?

I don’t know if it will sound the same, because my kid has this drum kit with a Simmons 25amp cab and when I connect my IRIG headphone to the Aux input it sounds flat and awful, it actually sounds fuller when I plug my bass straight into the 1/4 input in the same amp. I was assuming the same was going to happen with the rumble.

 

[abarson]

Okay, I can see how previous experience could make you wary. In general, AUX In is for playing along with prerecorded music and may or may not be of the highest fidelity.
You might want to ask others about their experience using the AUX In on their Rumble here:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fender-rumble-club.970397/page-83#post-16313333

There are plenty of other combo and standalone amplifier options to consider other than the Rumble as well.

 

[TimoBatis]

Okay, I can see how previous experience could make you wary. In general, AUX In is for playing along with prerecorded music and may or may not be of the highest fidelity.
You might want to ask others about their experience using the AUX In on their Rumble here:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fender-rumble-club.970397/page-83#post-16313333

There are plenty of other combo and standalone amplifier options to consider other than the Rumble as well.

Yes, that's what I was thinking to take other routes. I know there are other people using modelers, like the Kemper. There is a Kemper with built in Amp, so I guess you get a Kemper cab (for guitar) or make your own for Bass. There is a Kemper with no Amp, I imagine that would be the same scenario Im having: A modeled signal that would need to be amplified and then sent to speakers.

 

[agedhorse]

I think you are going to be chasing rainbows trying to build a DIY cabinet that's going to be a better solution than something much easier and something that you can evaluate BEFORE you buy.

Not saying you can't learn, but that you are quite far away from your stated goals and there is a considerable learning experience that goes along with trying to outsmart the "smart guys". I'm saying this with over 40 years in the industry designing these products, so I have a pretty good idea what you don't know (but don't know that you don't know).

 

[TimoBatis]

I think you are going to be chasing rainbows trying to build a DIY cabinet that's going to be a better solution than something much easier and something that you can evaluate BEFORE you buy.

Not saying you can't learn, but that you are quite far away from your stated goals and there is a considerable learning experience that goes along with trying to outsmart the "smart guys". I'm saying this with over 40 years in the industry designing these products, so I have a pretty good idea what you don't know (but don't know that you don't know).

Back to square one then, how do I hear my Modeler outside the iPad with the closest tone possible?
I know that a cable from the headphone port of the iPad to the Aux port on a regular Bass Amp will not sound nice, and I also know that using something like an iRig HD 2, going from the FX 1/4" to the 1/4" input on a external Bass Amp will give me a different sound because of the Bass Amp itself.

What are the options for someone that just got a modeler like an iPad app, or a Kemper, or something else like that? just headphones?

 

[voodoobassist]

A FRFR powered speaker is about your easiest way to reach your goal. I run the HX Stomp and quite often take it into a powered speaker, basically a PA cab. I love this setup,......HOWEVER,......it doesn't deliver the punch and air moving , pants flapping goodness that a regular solid bass amp provides. I use this rig because I play mostly casino jobs, and they tend to frown on a full blown SVT rig, that, and my old back can't handle moving one anymore.

Agedhorse is imparting a good bit of sound advice to you in the above posts. If you're just dead set on approaching this close to your vision though, I'd suggest trying something like an EV ZLX15, preferably used. They can be found pretty cheaply, $300 give or take, and they do a respectable job on being a bass monitor. There are far better brands and models, QSC K12, etc etc, but at that price point, I haven't found a better powered PA cab that can double as a bass "amp". Best of luck on your quest , and hope you find a workable solution for your needs.

 

[abarson]

I don't think you're back at square one. Through process of elimination you've concluded that the iRig headphone output into an AUX input is not what you want. The iRig HD2 has a 1/4" line output to connect to an amplifier input. This will provide a better signal into your amplifier of choice. You've now resolved your source issue. On to amplification.

Many bass amplifiers are well-known for having very clean unaltered signal. You will need to do some research as to what is the "cleanest" for your purpose. Eich, EBS, and Quilter all come to mind. Otherwise you can investigate using a PA grade rack mount amplifier (Crown, QSC, etc.). Equalization can be applied to fine tune any specific needs to tailor to the physical space the amplification is being performed in. The EQ on the bass amplifier is usually adequate. Lastly, your amplifier needs to drive speakers.

Speakers capable of reproducing bass frequencies at higher power outputs are still necessary. Once again you have a wide variety of choices, some will have more of a tonal fingerprint than others. I would dare to say that my Acme B2 is very uncolored and full range, but there are other choices as well.

You might want to do a search on Kemper for more ideas, there are lots of pertinent threads.

 

[TimoBatis]

All great advise. No doubt about it

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Get a QSC K12.2

 

[seamonkey]

Headphones are a good start. Make sure you have good ones. Good headphones are "Full Range Flat Frequency Response" (FRFR). They don't usually advertise FRFR because that obvious for good headphones. Wide frequency and accurate response is probably what you want in powered speaker.

Powered studio monitors can work, but are not going to be "loud"
FOH (PA) powered cabs - like the QSC are fabulous. They don't advertise "FRFR" in FOH/PA cabs because that too is obvious for FOH.

If any music stores are open, take your bass and iPad in and try a few choices.

 

[TimoBatis]

Headphones are a good start. Make sure you have good ones. Good headphones are "Full Range Flat Frequency Response" (FRFR). They don't usually advertise FRFR because that obvious for good headphones. Wide frequency and accurate response is probably what you want in powered speaker.

Powered studio monitors can work, but are not going to be "loud"
FOH (PA) powered cabs - like the QSC are fabulous. They don't advertise "FRFR" in FOH/PA cabs because that too is obvious for FOH.

If any music stores are open, take your bass and iPad in and try a few choices.

:-( yes, everything musical in my area is closed.
I read about the QSC K12.2, CyberSnyder above recommended it. It looks great, it might be a good fit, price is not so crazy, Im scared about the loudness, because I was looking for something moderate, I practice in my living room, this is not for gigging, I wonder if the k12.2 still sound as great at low volumes. Another of my kids used to practice his guitar with a Fender Champion 20, but since he put his hand on my iPad he has been using BIAS FX and completely stopped using his Amp, maybe I will sell his and combine two uses on the QSC K12.2 (me for Bass and him for Guitar, since we never practice at the same time). It will be a good selling point with the wife
Another user here recommended me to check on the Fender Rumble thread how the iPad would sound through the aux port on them, so I went and posted a question about that.
Regarding headphones, so far im using a pair of cheap OneOdio Pro10 I got on Amazon for $30, they are not flashy but I have several high end Shure earbuds that I regarded as "Very good" and these cheapo headphones are kind of close in sound quality, who knows perhaps Im losing my hearing already and I don't know good from bad anymore . I was actually thinking on upgrading to the AKG Pro Audio K240 for night practice.