"Extra Something" Pedal for Synth

[speak_onion]

I used to run mine in parallel with an OC-2 using an LS-2 to blend them and it did sound good. I had all three of them stuck in the loop of my Meatwad and I remember the first time I switched on that combo in my first rehearsal with a new band, the singer turned around and yelled "Play more like that!"

Tracking... As I remember it wasn't as good as the BMS, but it's not far off. And it's analogue so there's no latency at least. Definitely ask Mario about the low end if you're thinking about ordering, because a bit more beef would really improve that pedal.

Speak Onion's got one too, or had one, maybe he can offer his opinion. Haven't seen him around for a while though so it might be worth PM-ing him.

Yeah, Pulse Syth doesn't have the most low end, and blending it with a sub-octave (I used to run pulse synth-->Octron) makes sense, but I don't think it's that bad. You just have to keep the "pulse" set so that with the depth off, you get the full 50/50 square wave, which has the most beef to it. Then when you turn the depth up, you lose a bit, but ever time the LFO gets to its minimum value, you have the squarewave and all your low end. Also, I always use it with my MAM Warp 9, and that beefs up the low end for me. I don't really like the Pulse Synth wihtout a filter. I actually just used Pulse synth on an improv track yesterday (dude playing a machinedrum by hand, me playing bass), and I was way happy with the tone. I'll try to remember to post up the track when it's released.

 

[jufros]

Would you recommend it?

 

[plekan]

With your kickass setup I can't believe you don't already have a ring mod.

+1 on Heliotrope delivering that ring mod + bit crushing sound.

Noisebox also gets some good noise on these forums.

Devi Ever Bit is great for bit crushing sounds. Bit mangler is a bit bigger but ridiculous. She also has a dream mangler that octave fuzzes up AND down. Don't know about the low end loss though.

Pitchfactor gets good reviews on here too.

Oh, and a memory boy with a PEEP expression plug is awesome.

 

[speak_onion]

Would you recommend it?

Actually, I dunno. I don't think it's a "something extra" pedal, it's a waveshaper. It won't go along with a sound you're already using, but it gives you another flavor at the beginning of your chain.

In my waveshaping section I have a Nocto, DOD Corrosion distortion, Pulse Synth, and my 1-bit ringmod, and I think Pulse Synth would be the first to go if I had to loose one of them, but there would have to be a REALLY compelling reason for me to bump it.

 

[jufros]

The Nocto looks cool to me as well. How's the low end and how articulate is it?

I'm completely interested in something that would add a new dimension to my sounds and give me a lot of new options.

 

[jufros]

Anyone tried the Robot Factory Quad Octave Synth?

 

[groooooove]

zvex machine, perhaps?

immagine any fuzz/dirt pedal you have as being some kind of mule. stepping on the machine before it, is like cracking it with a whip. itll screech like no other.

but FYI by itself theres low end loss. with a 2nd fuzz (like its intended for) its perfectly bass friendly.

 

[speak_onion]

The Nocto looks cool to me as well. How's the low end and how articulate is it?

I'm completely interested in something that would add a new dimension to my sounds and give me a lot of new options.

Plenty of low end from the Nocto. I don't really know what you mean by articulate. With the pulsing going on, you can get a lot of variety by changing how you fret or pluck (I guess it's because you emphasize/de-emphasize certain overtones, so those deep sub-octaves glitch and then give you different pulse speeds), but it's not going to be something where the natural intricacies of your technique show through.

As per your PM, if I were to compare Nocto to PS, I would say that Pulse Synth is better for a standard synth sound where you say, "that sounds like an analog synth." Nocto is more, well, crazy. It's more agressive, more versatile and more difficult to control.

With the PS, I set it in one spot and turn it on when I need a modulated pulse wave. That's it. I don't find the envelope controlled speed useful, and I only like one setting for the limits of the pulse width. Set and Forget.

With the Nocto, I want lots of different settings, Nocto settings with or without pulse (I've been meaning to build an exp-pedal control for the Pulse knob) for deep synth-y stuff, and Loco settings with or without and with different settings of the octave switches for all out bonkers aggressive stuff.

Anyway, neither pedal can do what the other one does, and best of both worlds would probably be to have them in the 2 loops of an LS-2 so you could choose either/or or blend them.

Can you post a shot of your board as it currently is? I forgot what you're working with already.

 

[kevteop]

With the PS, I set it in one spot and turn it on when I need a modulated pulse wave. That's it. I don't find the envelope controlled speed useful, and I only like one setting for the limits of the pulse width. Set and Forget.

I never found the envelope control useful either. I set it up for the most 50:50-sounding pulse I could get and then left it there. I tweaked the LFO modulation to a rapid speed with fairly shallow depth so it was an obvious wobble but didn't take away too much bottom.

I had a nice bonus feature on my PS though: A flicky switch to determine whether the LFO modulation was on or not, and a momentary footswitch to reverse the state of the flicky switch. So I could have a regular pulse wave going on, and just bring in the LFO wobble on certain notes with my foot. They've got a similar feature on the Octavius Squeezer so I can only assume they saw my Pulse Synth and thought it was awesome.

 

[speak_onion]

They've got a similar feature on the Octavius Squeezer so I can only assume they saw my Pulse Synth and thought it was awesome.

DEMAND ROYALTIES


Cool idea!

 

[jufros]

It's basically like that but there are already a fair amount of large changes that I know I'm going to make...

For one, I think the PT-Jr is going to be a second PT-2. I need to have two boards because i have two projects: a funk/dance/pop band and my electronica project. I'm going to chain the two boards together for the electronica project so that I can use the modulation section, limiter, and AF-9 on my second board.

The BMS is going to be moved to the band board and will likely be replaced with the Pulse Synth. The FX25 is going to be moved as well since I pretty much just use it as a clean bass->FX25 dub filter. I'll probably move the Blow Torch as well so that I have some more room for waveshaping on the dedicated electronica board.

This would leave me with enough room for both the Pulse Synth and Nocto Loco if I wanted to pursue that option ultimately. I could also sell the Enigma and replace it with a Robot Factory MS-20 type filter.

If I do get the Pulse Synth, I'm going to put it in a parallel loop, with the BOD and potential Nocto in a second loop.

How different is the octave character between the OC-2 and Nocto? I definitely use octaves as a fundamental sound to manipulate a lot, so some variety there would be fantastic.

I'm just not sure what I should buy and experiment with first.

Can you post your board and tell me how you have it rigged up?

 

[speak_onion]

Blending the Pulse Synth with the BOD (that's kevtop's trick), is a cool idea, and will give you results like using the square wave and the suboctave sliders on the BMS.

The OC-2 nd Nocto have VERY different characters. Ignoring the Loco mode for now, even in the regular nocto mode, the Nocto is much more agressive and nasty than the OC-2. It's not really a saw wave, but it's closer to that than the hollow, square-wave sound of the OC-2. And in Loco mode, forget it, it's totally ruined and distorted. Have you heard the clips that John Davis uploaded of him playing a nocto? They are pretty representative.

I don't have a pic of my board because it's not quite finished yet (I'm going to pick up a new weapon later today), but its current state is bass-->nocto-->DOD Corrosion-->Pulse Synth-->1-bit Ring Mod-->bent PDS 20/20--> MAM Warp 9-->DOD chorus-->Lexicon Vortex

The Nocto, Pulse Synth, and 1-bit are pretty much mutually exclusive, but I'll stack any of them with the DOD. I use the Pulse Synth most on something where the low end is already there, like something that has some 808 style kicks in it.

 

[jufros]

You could probably blend the Nocto (or really any octaver) and the Pulse Synth as well. If you just dialed in enough sub octave to adequately fatten the PS, you could probably create the illusion that the PS had more low end much like blending clean/fuzz can.

If I understand the Nocto correctly...
-The "Unity" switch blends the octave with your clean signal at some ratio when on and leaves you with the suboctave exclusively when off. I'd probably never use the unity switch then.
-Speed controls 4/5/6 octaves below. In normal mode, these are used to modulate the pitch of the 1/2/3 octave and the rate of the pitch shifting is determined by the frequency of the fundamental.
-Pulse controls the width of the shift? I'm not really sure how this works or if the Nocto uses a tremolo or a pitch shifting effect. If it's tremolo, I assume it's depth. If it's pitch shifting, I'd assume it's range.
-Loco mode shifts the 4/5/6 octaves into an audible range and distorts them. What exactly does this mean and where are they shifted to? I'll search around for those Nocto clips you mentioned.

I do use a lot of deep sub tones with the Moog so maybe the Nocto would be a great compliment to the BOD.

I'm thinking..
Loop1: BOD, Nocto, Brown Dog, Orbit, ODB-3
Loop2: Pulse Synth

Output of LS-2-> second LS-2

Second LS-2:
Loop 1: Enigma, MS-20 clone?
Loop 2: Moog LPF

Output of second LS-2-> modulation (chorus, phaser, tremolo)

If the Pulse Synth is more useful for synth sounds than the BMS, I can probably just sell the BMS. I can also sell the Blow Torch and the GI as neither are as useful as the Brown Dog or Orbit for synth fuzz. I'll probably sell the BSW because it's just not really my style. I might let the Blue Boy go as well but we'll see.

This would free up space for a Robot Factory MS-20 filter, Heliotrope, Quad Octave Synth?, Micro POG to add an octave up to any sound, maybe a really fast delay or another chorus to create some more thickness before filtering.

 

[speak_onion]

I feel no need for that blending trick, because I don't use the PS when I need that deepness. I'm not really playing electronica or d'n'b stuff, but rather droney, experimental styles, so I don't always need to be blasting the low end.

I like your plan a lot with the dual LS-2s, that's way cool. And you're probably right about selling the BMS.

Just to clear up some things about the Nocto:
- The unity switch does NOT blend in your clean signal. It supposedly adds in a tone at the frequency you're playing, but it's very subtle. You can tell that something changes when you flick it, but it's not like, "oh, there's that other octave." Hard to describe. I guess it just changes the harmonic content a little.
- The pulse knob controls the depth at which the -4, -5, or -6 octave amplitude modulates the signal. So, tremolo depth.
- Loco mode is hard to describe. It sounded nothing like I expected it to before I heard it. It's just a really nasty synthy glitchy sound. I can't really do better than that.

 

[kevteop]

If the Pulse Synth is more useful for synth sounds than the BMS, I can probably just sell the BMS.

I had both on my board, and I'm a big fan of the BMS (albeit the old one, I wasn't too keen on the new one but I've waffled on about that enough in other threads). The main benefit of the BMS IMO is the precise sweep of the filter, and I still haven't found another filter that does that as well as the BMS does (the O.S. has an ADSR mode on its filter but it doesn't trigger as reliably as the BMS, almost like it doesn't "note off" quickly enough sometimes, even on the fastest decay setting).

So yeah, if you do use the filter sweep on the BMS then it's worth keeping just for that - there's really no replacement for it. As for what S.O. said about the OC-2/Pulse Synth blend being like a suboctave + square wave mix on the BMS - that's a good comparison but I much prefer the PS to the dirt slider on the BMS, which sounds too obviously like a fuzz when it's high in the mix. The Pulse Synth really doesn't sound like a fuzz, it's too regular.

 

[jufros]

I think I definitely prefer sweeping the Moog LPF with an expression pedal to the BMS filter sweep. The Moog has more range, sounds much fatter to my ears, and I like having manual real time control of the filter sweep. Of course, I can't sweep the Moog down but I don't do that much with the BMS as is. I could probably fit the BMS and the Pulse Synth if I wanted to though and that would really give me an absolute ton of sounds.

I could also get a Mammoth, but I'm really happy with the Brown Dog at the moment. The Mastotron could be cool though.

 

[kevteop]

I think I definitely prefer sweeping the Moog LPF with an expression pedal to the BMS filter sweep. The Moog has more range, sounds much fatter to my ears, and I like having manual real time control of the filter sweep.

Oh sure. I use my Meatwad for manual sweeps, BMS for those more "mechanical" keyboard synth sweeps, Octavius Squeezer for envelope, sample & hold and tap-tempo LFO sweeps. And the Bassballs just as an "envelope modulation"-type filter. You can never have too many filters on a board.

The other great thing about the BMS is that it isn't envelope-controlled. So you can guarantee the filter sweep will trigger regardless of the signal you feed it, so long as it trips the threshold you set with the trigger slider. This is a nice property to have in a filter, especially where fuzzes and stuff are involved.

I could also get a Mammoth, but I'm really happy with the Brown Dog at the moment. The Mastotron could be cool though.

FWIW I've got a Mammoth and also the Brown Dog circuit in my O.S. and I prefer the Brown Dog. The Mammoth is pretty nutsy but I get more use out of the Brown Dog for synthy sounds, it's designed to work in conjunction with a good filter on the end of it and it shows.

Also bear in mind the Mammoth compresses your signal completely flat, regardless of what you do with the knobs. So don't expect any envelope-following pedal to work at all after a Mammoth - it just forces everything wide open!

 

[Jazz Ad]

Synth boards should have an Ibanez LF-7. It's a great shaper and the lo pass filter is awesome to open and close synth tones.

 

[jufros]

Ok cool. Yeah I think I'm going to liquidate a bunch of pedals and get a Nocto, Pulse Synth, and ultimately either a Robot Factory Photron or Hydra Filter. If I go to with the Photron, I'm definitely not going to miss the BMS. If he can, I may just have Mario build a Hydra Filter with an LFO built in. That would be amazing, most likely expensive, but probably completely worth it. I'd potentially have 3 filters available at any time, all in parallel or 2 in series.

 

[jufros]

I sent emails about the Photron and Nocto. I'm basically selling everything in the classifieds.