Faital Pro 12pr310 sealed?

[Buzz Allgrin]

My V4 is holding up nice. I have backlined it a few times and I get nothing but good reactions. Those 16ohm 12pr310 speakers are definitely a good find for sealed cabs. I have been wanting a 2x12 and was considering splitting it into 2 cabs, but the v4 sounds so good and is easy enough to haul around.

 

[NKBassman]

So is this analysis limited to the 16 ohm version?

 

[ThisBass]

1 cu ft per driver (heavy damping): System Qtc = 0.71 / F3 = 91Hz
1 cu ft per driver (medium damping): System Qtc = 0.78 / F3 = 86Hz

1.5 cu ft per driver (heavy damping): System Qtc = 0.64 / F3 = 89Hz
1.5 cu ft per driver (medium damping): System Qtc = 0.71 / F3 = 83Hz

For bass guitar application I'd prefere Qtc > 0.7

 

[ThisBass]

The early V4 cabs came with Altec 417-8C Speakers

I only have the Altec 417-16LF Speaker in my database. Either way, lets see what happens with the 16LF version in a 412 cab for 50 Watt input power.

Cone displacement Altec 417-16LF

it can be easily noticed that this LF version "guitar" cab don't handles lots of input power at the low end. No its not 50 watt per driver. The plot is for 50 watt input on the 412 cabinet input jack.


For comparision here you are with 12PR310 for 700 watt input power on the "same" 4x12 cabinetry.

 

[rzero]

My V4 is holding up nice. I have backlined it a few times and I get nothing but good reactions. Those 16ohm 12pr310 speakers are definitely a good find for sealed cabs. I have been wanting a 2x12 and was considering splitting it into 2 cabs, but the v4 sounds so good and is easy enough to haul around.

I actually have an Ampeg 2x12 guitar cab on the way, the SS-212EC. And @ThisBass can rest assured, I will be putting bass speakers in this one. I want to see if it will hold up against 4x12 and 2x12 guitar cabs at band practice. I want 8 ohm speakers for this one, which opens up a lot of choices. I might have to learn how to use some modeling software...

 

[Buzz Allgrin]

So is this analysis limited to the 16 ohm version?

Yes! I have the 16ohm speakers. I chose those speakers because they were the only ones I could find that seemed to be fit for a sealed cabinet.

I actually have an Ampeg 2x12 guitar cab on the way, the SS-212EC. And @ThisBass can rest assured, I will be putting bass speakers in this one. I want to see if it will hold up against 4x12 and 2x12 guitar cabs at band practice. I want 8 ohm speakers for this one, which opens up a lot of choices. I might have to learn how to use some modeling software...

I don't know that cabinet, but I would be careful which speakers you select. I know that the other impedance versions of the 12pr310 speakers did not seem to be as good of a fit.. also, the reason the v4 cabinet holds up so well is because it is braced internally already.. a 2x12 may not need it as much, but most guitar cabs these days have removable back panels.. you may want to seal that up if that cabinet is built like that. good luck!! let us know how it works.

 

[rzero]

Qts = 0.4, wouldn't suggest 0.4 for smallish sealed chamber for bass guitar application.
For High end purists who look for very tight bone-dry response, may be a good choice

It's 0.67 for the 16 ohm version.

According to Parts Express, the 16 ohm 12PR310 has a Qts of 0.54, the 8 ohm is 0.40, and the 4 ohm is 0.42. Would there really be a significant difference between the 16 ohm and the 8 ohm version? I would rather have 8 ohm speakers for the 2x12, all else being equal. This cab is close to 1 cu. ft. per speaker, each speaker in its own sealed chamber, with a separate input for each speaker.

 

[rzero]

Checking the FaitalPRO website, it actually does list the higher Qts of 0.67 for the 16 ohm version. And also the EBP is 77, compared to >100 for the 4 and 8 ohm versions. I’m leaning toward getting a couple of the 16 ohm for the 2x12, which I don’t love the idea of dropping my amp from 1000 watts to 600 with an 8 ohm load, but I guess these speakers might not be able to do much musically or mechanically with the extra 400 watts anyway...

 

[agedhorse]

Checking the FaitalPRO website, it actually does list the higher Qts of 0.67 for the 16 ohm version. And also the EBP is 77, compared to >100 for the 4 and 8 ohm versions. I’m leaning toward getting a couple of the 16 ohm for the 2x12, which I don’t love the idea of dropping my amp from 1000 watts to 600 with an 8 ohm load, but I guess these speakers might not be able to do much musically or mechanically with the extra 400 watts anyway...

I think an 8 ohm load may be a blessing in disguise, especially if you tend to play hard.

 

[Buzz Allgrin]

Checking the FaitalPRO website, it actually does list the higher Qts of 0.67 for the 16 ohm version. And also the EBP is 77, compared to >100 for the 4 and 8 ohm versions. I’m leaning toward getting a couple of the 16 ohm for the 2x12, which I don’t love the idea of dropping my amp from 1000 watts to 600 with an 8 ohm load, but I guess these speakers might not be able to do much musically or mechanically with the extra 400 watts anyway...

When I think about building a 2x12 it is because I would like an 8ohm cabinet that is smaller that I could use for smaller gigs/practices. My main rig is a tube amp with 2/4/8 ohm so I could even run that if I wanted to... but was thinking of pairing with SS amp at 8ohms.

 

[rzero]

So my second 12PR310 (16 ohm) for the 2x12 should arrive tomorrow. The first speaker arrived quickly but the second was backordered. The cabinet sounded pretty good with just one speaker, but I’m curious to hear it with two, and at band practice.

If @kringle77 is still following this thread, I wanted to double check on the insulation you have had luck with from Lowe’s. Is is this one? 3.5” thick, unfaced, plastic encapsulated:

Link Removed

 

[kringle77]

Yes, that is probably what I used, good luck!

 

[rzero]

I’m quite pleased with what I’m hearing out of this cab. I’m currently using flat wounds for a D-tuned hard rock project, and the lows and mids are strong and smooth coming from this cab; not weak, not boomy. The highs are clear and quite loud. I had to roll the tone down quite a bit on my Jazz to tame the highs on pops, but it sounded great. I was playing with new Chromes for what it’s worth, I’ll probably hike the tone knob up as they age. Musical highs, but unquestionably loud highs. Easy to fix with tone controls if needed. I should add there is no batting in the cab right now. I’ll pick some up later, but I wanted to spend some time without it to A/B.

It held up well with the master on my SVT 7-PRO somewhere past noon, which is as far as I went tonight, but is probably louder than what I’ll need at band practice.

 

[kringle77]

Nice looking build!

 

[Buzz Allgrin]

That looks great!! FWIW mine have settled in nicely now that they are broken in. The highs were a bit much at first.

 

[rzero]

Added another cab to the stack. This is an Ampeg GVT-112E 1x12 guitar cab. I put the 12PR-310 16-ohm in this as well. I don’t know that I really needed it, but one popped up for sale and I don’t see them very often.

I’ve been realizing how mid-heavy this setup sounds in the band room compared to my little Ampeg 1x8 combo amp I have at home. Today I cranked up the bass and treble on my active Yamaha, and engaged the ultra lo and ultra hi buttons on the SVT 7-PRO, and I quite liked the results. The tone became much more “modern”, but not too scooped, and the bass was quite strong, but tight.

I think these smaller cabinets really emphasize the mids with this speaker, and are far from flat, but I was pleased how they handled the bass bump. I might engage the eq bypass button next time I record a practice session direct, as this might be too scooped of a sound for the tape. We’ll see.

 

[ALRieseberg]

12pr300 Doesn't model anywhere near as well or else, that's what I would have done a long while ago. 12pr310 models really well.

As far as speaker modeling I’m a rookie.. Kringle77, does this just mean that the 12PR310 models better for bottom end content? Or does it model better for anything else?

 

[kringle77]

As far as speaker modeling I’m a rookie.. Kringle77, does this just mean that the 12PR310 models better for bottom end content? Or does it model better for anything else?

Yes, that is what he is saying. More bottom, more power handling. But, that doesnt necessarily mean better tone or that you may like it better. The sealed design might take double the drivers or more to keep up with one ported, bottom end wise. They are different though, no matter how they are tuned, sealed and ported will never be the same.

 

[rzero]

I am also experimenting with the Eminence Legend BP122. I can't give a real A/B with the 12PR-310 16-ohm at the moment, but I like what I hear. It has a lower efficiency rating, but apparently it is more efficient in the low end than some higher rated speakers. It's 8 ohms stock, but Eminence made me a 4-ohm version for a very reasonable 13% over retail for the 1x12 cabinet in the pic above.

 

[ALRieseberg]

Yes, that is what he is saying. More bottom, more power handling. But, that doesnt necessarily mean better tone or that you may like it better. The sealed design might take double the drivers or more to keep up with one ported, bottom end wise. They are different though, no matter how they are tuned, sealed and ported will never be the same.

Okay gotcha. Thanks for that! I have a hi-tone bass 4x12 which is modeled after the vintage hiwatt cabs dimensions/build wise. It currently has emi beta 12A-2 in there now which sound good but when I get my DR201 to around 3/4 volume that 2k-ish mid spike gets very prominent and is mid city! I’d like a better balance of treble+presence+mids so I ordered (2) 12PR300’s to put in an x-pattern. I figured they’d give me a little extended high end and save a tiny bit of weight as well. After reading this it almost makes me want to send them back for the 12PR310 .
I run a hi-tone 2x15 for the bottom end so I’m not relying on my 4x12 to do real heavy lifting.