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Fat "P" Neck: Learn It or Move On?

#41
^^^
@RED J you mean 1-2-4 as [index], [middle], and [ring+little] (like I do) right ? or is it like @metron 's way? (quoted below) ?
I don't know about 'Vulcan Salute' but I don't find it's hard to do either "V" with [index+middle] [space] [ring+pinky] or to do "W" with [index] [space] [middle+ring] [space] [little] or any other way, all are easy for me, left fingers and right fingers wise. So I don't really 'catch' what metron mean. For me it's (metron's way) is naturally more awkward...

metron said:
Keep your second and third fingers together instead of third and fourth. Somehow the tendons of the middle and ring fingers influence one another more than other adjacent fingers. It's why doing the Vulcan salute is hard for people to do. You can naturally get a lot more spread between the index-middle and ring-pinky fingers than you will between middle-ring fingers.
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#42
Music is supposed to be fun, not painful. Life is too short to struggle with an instrument, if you don't love every second, then do something about it. you can find plenty of P-Basses out there, with Jazz profile necks, or just pick up a J neck on ebay, and store the original!
 
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#43
I have small hands and I play and love baseball-bat necked Warwicks which makes me think that it's probably not the neck shape. If your P-Bass neck is chunkier than my 'Wicks then I would be surprised, and considering the number of P-Bass players out there I would imagine that there are at least a few with smaller hands who are not having any problems at all. If you aren't having trouble on all of your basses then I would guess that it's probably not JUST your technique, but as others have pointed out there are LOTS of variables beyond neck shape, so it might well be a combination of your technique with one of the other factors. My first thought was the position of the bass in relation to you. When you play the P, is the nut further away from you than your other basses?
 
#44
I don't have any pain, but I've tried to like P necks and it feels forced. It's not the neck size so much, but the string spacing. For me a jazz neck just felt natural right from the start. I like low action as well, so that's how I set my basses up. There are too many options these days to try to force yourself to play something you don't like. If I were on an island with nothing but a high action 5 string P-bass, I guess I'd make due. Since that's not the case, why would I play anything but what feels natural? I don't play bass to show how tough I can be fighting through pain on an uncomfortable instrument. It's possible to run a marathon in cowboy boots, just no reason to do it.
 
#45
Jack Butler said:
I don't have any pain, but I've tried to like P necks and it feels forced. It's not the neck size so much, but the string spacing. For me a jazz neck just felt natural right from the start. I like low action as well, so that's how I set my basses up. There are too many options these days to try to force yourself to play something you don't like. If I were on an island with nothing but a high action 5 string P-bass, I guess I'd make due. Since that's not the case, why would I play anything but what feels natural? I don't play bass to show how tough I can be fighting through pain on an uncomfortable instrument. It's possible to run a marathon in cowboy boots, just no reason to do it.
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There is a difference between how difficult an instrument is to play and a poor design; The first time I picked a bass - any bass - I was overwhelmed by how hard it was to fret, to do octaves - all of that. But I learned. That said, the old P-bass necks with their 1 3/4 wide (at the nut) necks are really too wide, for most folks that is. The OP should check out a more modern P bass or a J bass, simple as that. If even those don't feel right... well, then... I don't know what to say.
 
#46
I think there's some level of challenge to be able to smoothly play any bass, and the 'challenge levels' are different from bass to bass. P-bass (neck) may have their own level of challenge that higher than, say Jazz bass or something 'easier',..but it's not that hard IMHO. It's not even harder than a double bass, or even six string basses.
But the level can be accepted differently too by each person. If the OP or some comments here suggest to leave the P-Bass neck for the easier level of challenge bass neck, then it's OK for them.
But isn't there other factor than just 'the easiest' neck to play factor?
Perhaps if anyone only factoring in or only think about 'the lowest level of challenge a.k.a the easiest bass to play' without other considerations (like me,..it's the sound mainly)...everyone would ends up plays bass like ...U-Bass, for instance,..although it must be have it's own 'challenge' too, albeit maybe in other aspects.


KA-UBASS-Acacia-Model.jpg
 
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#49
Ring+little finger is a natural pairing because they share a flexor tendon. I know some players also have success paring middle+ring fingers. Everybody's hands are different.

Lots of great musicians use all the fingers independently, so it is not physically impossible.

But if you are in pain, 1-2-4 in the lower positions might be more comfortable. It is also very musical--the "perfect" intervals (1, 4, 5, 8) are effortless.
 
#50
bluesdogblues said:
^^^
@RED J you mean 1-2-4 as [index], [middle], and [ring+little] (like I do) right ? or is it like @metron 's way? (quoted below) ?
I don't know about 'Vulcan Salute' but I don't find it's hard to do either "V" with [index+middle] [space] [ring+pinky] or to do "W" with [index] [space] [middle+ring] [space] [little] or any other way, all are easy for me, left fingers and right fingers wise. So I don't really 'catch' what metron mean. For me it's (metron's way) is naturally more awkward...
Click to expand...

Whatever works best for you! The middle and ring finger tendons are generally not independent and it doesn't make sense to try to fight that. Invalid Link Removed I can get maybe 30% more spread and much more confort if I keep my middle and ring fingers togetherwhen using 1 2 4 technique. I believe I learned this from both Rabbath and Rufus Reids Evolving Bassist.

Just looking for a more comfortable approach is the goal. I have been playing like this for the last 10 years.
 
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#52
SIZE MATTERS!

Try on a variety of basses for size. Like shirts, basses come in a variety of sizes - S-M-L-XL even XS and XXL. By all means, play what fits you - particularly if the size you are struggling with is causing more than normal stretching and growing pains.

Some would encourage you otherwise - but there is no macho badge of honor award - for tolerating major discomfort participating in an activity you love. Be smart about it. If it hurts on a continual basis and the fun factor is being diminished as you go - rethink it.

Find and play what fits you and keep the joy in it.

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
 
#53
@bluesdogblues
@RED J you mean 1-2-4 as [index], [middle], and [ring+little] (like I do) right ?

Right. When I watch bass or guitar players play and not use their pinkie/little finger, I can't relate ! When I watch players with long spidery fast fingers, I think, what a gift. but short fat fingers are tone monsters !
 
#54
BassHappy said:
S...Some would encourage you otherwise - but there is no macho badge of honor award - for tolerating major discomfort participating in an activity you love. Be smart about it. If it hurts on a continual basis and the fun factor is being diminished as you go - rethink it...
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I think: of anybody here who suggest to the OP to re-learn his approach to his P-Bass neck - before deciding to 'move on' to other neck/bass,, there's no one who suggest the OP for 'tolerating major discomfort participating in an activity he loves".

It's smart to not tolerate any "hurts on a continual basis and the fun factor is being diminished",..but it's not fool either (or might even smarter) to - at first - carefully give another try to do better ways for something that we might do it wrongly (it's only been 6 months ! OMG) to re-learn, to approach it differently than before (in order to prevent hurts, discomfort etc too & play smoothly - whatever the bass of choice is - at the end) before decide to move on.
And there's nothing about machoism etc there.

Above all, I respect all suggestions here.. I wish the best for the OP, any which way he'll chose later.
 
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#55
I slightly had the same problem. There was discomfort when playing a P or even a Ray. I love both of those basses. So, I had to move to the way of finding a bass like those with the J necks. I had a Stingray Slo Special at one time. Now, I have a L2K with a #8 neck. And thinking about trading into a Fender P with a J neck.
 
#56
Lots of good advice in the thread already :thumbsup:, apart from the people saying play through the pain. :facepalm:

Mushroo said:
...I have tiny hands and play a P bass. I learned both 1-2-3-4 and 1-2-4 fingerings, and I find that 1-2-4 is much more comfortable when playing in 1st position (near the nut). Also make sure your thumb is not opposite your middle finger so your palm is creased; that is an instant recipe for pain/cramping.
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+1 on 1-2-4 fingering near the nut, but not everyone has problems with thumb opposite middle finger. I do this with no pain/cramping.

Mushroo said:
Shift instead of stretching 1 to 4. Problem solved. :)
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metron said:
Try upright fingering technique in the lower registers where you use the index, middle, and pinky to reach frets 1-3 or 1-4. Works really well for me. That said I don't really care for P necks and I do play upright as well. I moved on...
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+1 on upright technique near the nut. I've got big hands and still prefer to use upright 1-2-4 on my Jags (Jazz-neck profiles, I believe).





I play upright primarily, bass guitar (34"-scale) at home and recently have been playing a borrowed UBass. Each has its own requirements for technique.

Adapt your technique, swap necks, do stretching exercises before and after playing, do whatever it takes to... Keep Playing!
 
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#57
I have 3 Fender P basses with different neck profiles and, play them all. Now, I have had basses in the past that were uncomfortable to play, one,a Gibson T Bird and one a Gibson RD Artist. I sold both Gibson basses without hesitation and moved on. On your Fender P, try adjusting the strap, and see if that helps. I find that wearing a bass to high, makes it difficult to play for long periods of time in the lower registers. If adjusting the strap doesn't work, then it's your technique. The best test of a basses playability is to play it on a gig; if you can't finish the gig because of discomfort, sell the bass. When, I owned the Gibson RD Artist, I took it to a gig along with a spare bass which was a 70s era MM Stingray. I think I lasted one or two songs on the Gibson then quickly switched to the Stingray and my problem was solved and I knew the RD Artist would soon be history.
 
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#59
Try adjusting the height of the bass. I start with the neck plate at my belt buckle. A little higher might help the left hand reach around the neck better. Too high and the right wrist bends too sharply. Try to find the best height for long term comfort on both hands.
 
#60
I just watched my 1-2-4 playing carefully in the mirror, and the truth is my ring finger just sort of wiggles around depending on the movements of my middle and pinky finger. The sensation doesn't hurt, and it doesn't feel unrelaxed or look inefficent. It is kind of like the sympathetic vibrations when one string gets the string next to it oscillating.

You probably wouldn't want to, for example, lock down your 3rd finger so tightly to the 2nd or the 4th finger so that the fingertips were overlapping and turning white from tension and lack of circulation.

When I switch to 1-2-3-4 then I am able to move the 3rd finger independently. "Permuation" type exercises are good for building this skill.

The reason why I like a slightly chunkier neck is I feel it spreads out the arch of my hand, which feels relaxing.
 

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