Faulty new string?

[dkelley]

It's the wrong way to string. You need a break angle otherwise the string curves over and has a higher action, until it finally sits after stretching over time. While it's doing that, everything is changing slightly. This is basic stuff.

Depends on the string and the design of the bridge, actually. I've been playing for, omg, a very very long time (decades), professionally, and never bothered with that. Partly because the "witness point" you speak of can change as the string stretches when it's new. So I intentionally avoid doing that and instead let the string form it's own "witness point" on the bridge saddle once it's been on there for a few hours.

But then I don't use particularly stiff strings, not flats, not very heavy, and I only use top mounted bridges so there isn't that stupidly heavy bend on the strings near the end.

I've had to use the "witness point" on a bass that had medium gauge strings and was being strung through body.... and it was just hell to get it lined up exactly right by putting force on it to bend it at the exact point that it wanted to bend.

So I'm not saying that witness points are wrong - they are, from my experience, very much related to the type of string and how it mounts on your instrument.

I also am extremely picky about very very low action and buzzing etc. It's not "doing it wrong" to not bend the string over the saddle. It's just situation-dependent.

I would ABSOLUTELY NEVER tell someone that they are doing it wrong if they don't bend the string over the saddles. It's not "basic stuff".

 

[Plain Old Barry]

This is probably sacrilegious to at least half of TB, but no. I've always just strung my basses and started playing.

I played for 30 problem-free years before I ever even heard of a witness point here on TB.

However, most of us who never heard of it probably used some other method of seating a string. I've always done a thumb / forefinger stretch, like operating a folding can opener. Like this, but on the string:

I've tried "witness pointing", and they both seem to have the same positive result of eliminating the arc over the nut and bridge for me. We used to call it "stretching" the string, but you're really seating it from the post to the eyelet hole, removing slack. I like some brightness in my strings, and have changed plenty as a tech and store employee.

 

[Turnaround]

I`ve been playing for years and this is the first I`ve ever heard of "witness point". Maybe I know it by another name, but I`d like to know what this is.

So many players have not heard of setting the witness points. It's an important part of string installation. But many never did it, but they did stretch their strings when installed. If you stretch and tune, stretch and tune several times the witness points will get set - not particularly well, but they will get set. It's far better to set the witness points directly. Do it once and it's done. Tuning stability will be increased. Intonation will be a lot easier to set and once intonated it will stay there. Failure to set the witness points will make intonation harder, and it may change as the strings "break in". It's so easy to do and has significant benefits. Just do it. Press the string down on the speaking side of the nut, straighten the path from tuner to nut, and press the string down just in front of the bridge so that all string lines are straight - nut tuner to nut, nut to saddle. No arcs.

 

[Solarmist]

I had that happen with a D'Add tapered E string, and it was an anomaly being they are the same strings I've used for years. I emailed Jason & sent me to D'Addario, and they sent me a new one ... problem solved.

 

[kmon]

I didn't know I had witness points until today. I just checked all 24 though and all is well.

 

[Geddaric]

After the strings are installed and tuned up to pitch, you should press on the string just in front of the saddle, gently with your thumb but firmly, to make sure the part that passes over the saddle is straight and flat with a well-defined break angle just behind it. When the string casually arches over the saddle, it can affect tuning stability as well as intonation.

View attachment 4133343

Never too old to learn something new..

I`ve always used the Billy Sheehan method and usually had no problems.
1. Ensure no string twist.
2. Grab that string with both hands.
3. Lift bass by the strings
4. "Bounce" the bass by the strings several times
5. Re-tune.
This will generally stretch the string to the point I would rarely have tuning issues.

But, I like your method better!

 

[michael_t]

2. Grab that string with both hands.
3. Lift bass by the strings
4. "Bounce" the bass by the strings several times
5. Re-tune.

Not for me...

I prefer my own method of letting the strings stretch naturally once they're installed and tuned up to pitch.

Here's the thing... Before I learned to set witness points properly, I used to have to re-tune them at least a few times before the new strings finally settled. Since I learned to set witness points properly during the installation, the need for repeated re-tuning during the initial break-in period has been drastically reduced.

By the way, I learned about "witness points" by watching one of Scott's Bass Lessons tutorial videos.

 

[Geddaric]

Not for me...

I prefer my own method of letting the strings stretch naturally once they're installed and tuned up to pitch.

Here's the thing... Before I learned to set witness points properly, I used to have to re-tune them at least a few times before the new strings finally settled. Since I learned to set witness points properly during the installation, the need for repeated re-tuning during the initial break-in period has been drastically reduced.

By the way, I learned about "witness points" by watching one of Scott's Bass Lessons tutorial videos.

Thanks. Looking forward to checking that out.

 

[forrestlaw]

WOW!

I feel incredibly foolish now. Got the Ric out and lightly pressed down on the neck side of the nut and "magically" everything is now ok once I retuned. I guess I needed to set the witness point at the nut or it wasn't properly seated... possibly both.

On the plus side I have an extra E string now as I don't need to replace it with the one I ordered.

 

[Sparky Mark]

Today I removed the neck of my Reggie Hamilton jazz to adjust the truss rod. I had to remove a relatively new set of SS Dunlop Super Bright as well. Upon restringing the A string is emitting a strange fizz/buzz which sounded like a loose bridge spring, but it wasn't. The A string was also dead. I've had this problem before with new strings but this one was good and zingy minutes before.
Reading this thread I loosened the string to allow the ball end to find its untwisted position in the bridge and retuned; still dead.
So the outer winding is rattling on the core wire is my conclusion. So I loosen the string and twist it in the direction of the wind allowing the ball end to spin in the bridge. Once I can feel the string is tight, 3 to 6 twists, I tightened the string without letting the ball spin back. Hey presto, the zing is back. This method seems to remove the slack between the core and the winding that can occur during stringing.
It's worth a try if you hear the same on a new set.

 

[GTHintz]

Today I removed the neck of my Reggie Hamilton jazz to adjust the truss rod. I had to remove a relatively new set of SS Dunlop Super Bright as well. Upon restringing the A string is emitting a strange fizz/buzz which sounded like a loose bridge spring, but it wasn't. The A string was also dead. I've had this problem before with new strings but this one was good and zingy minutes before.
Reading this thread I loosened the string to allow the ball end to find its untwisted position in the bridge and retuned; still dead.
So the outer winding is rattling on the core wire is my conclusion. So I loosen the string and twist it in the direction of the wind allowing the ball end to spin in the bridge. Once I can feel the string is tight, 3 to 6 twists, I tightened the string without letting the ball spin back. Hey presto, the zing is back. This method seems to remove the slack between the core and the winding that can occur during stringing.
It's worth a try if you hear the same on a new set.

Very interesting. I would have never thought to twist it like that. If a string doesn't work after I string it normally without a twist in it I'd assume it's just defective.

 

[Sparky Mark]

Very interesting. I would have never thought to twist it like that. If a string doesn't work after I string it normally without a twist in it I'd assume it's just defective.

Exactly. If I had a dead string in a new set I assumed it was manufactured faulty and was unusable. However I knew this particular string was good just minutes before so thought more deeply about what could've changed.
Roundwound strings are a very simple assembly; a wire coil wrapped around a central core wire. With the string held in the machine head post it makes sense to me that twisting the string (in the correct direction) could tighten the winding around the core or just compress the winding removing any gaps that might "rattle".