fEARful/fEARless - Guidance Needed

[drumandbass75]

Greetings everyone...OP here .

I've been away from the computer all day, and I'm loving the responses that I'm reading tonight. There's quite a few posts that I've taken notes on, and copied and pasted for further reading and research. I'll be able to respond to some of those posts by tomorrow. As much as you guys have probably been down this road of discussion/debate/sharing about these cabs, it's still all brand new to me, and this is essentially what I need to help make a solid decision...I'm getting there...I really am.

I appreciate the fact that everyone has been supportive, respectful, and not chase me off to use the "SEARCH" function of the website as I've seen at times. I have definitely searched, and this is exactly why I decided to post my current setup, and my needs for these cabs, so I can get some responses from you guys. I get it, everyone's not looking for the same sound, from the same gear. It's subjective dependent on your style of playing, style of music, choice of EQ, etc, so you guys are helping me greatly as you agree/disagree with each other in the process.

Lastly, I'll say this...as I slept on the posts from last night, and reading through today's posts, my quest for something to rival an 8x10 is kind of shaky right now. Not because of anyone's response, or advice, but because I can't think of the last time I needed an 8x10. As stated in my original post, I had (2) Goliath II cabs once upon a time, and I sold one & got the Peavey TVX 210 for the smaller gigs. Not ruling out a bigger setup, it's just a little shaky right now. With pictures of your builds, or setups, and SOLID, ACTUAL advice from players with different setups, it seems like I can get a few different options that would cover small gigs like my current 2x10, and then still have enough juice for bigger gigs comparable to a 4x10 & bigger.

DISCLAIMER:
I set out to type a brief post to thank you guys for the responses thus far, and let you know that I'm still in the game, and I just haven't been able to respond to anything yet....and here I am 3 paragraphs later.

Thanks again guys, keep em coming

 

[Dave Hill]

I have two GIIIs and a Megoliath and can play through an SVT whenever I want. I’ve used them all on many gigs. While the F212 (or two F112s) certainly sound different (IMO better) than the 810s, they can absolutely sound as loud and powerful, if you have the wattage. They will absolutely bury any 410. I use the F212 for everything and am NEVER left wanting.

 

[BurningSkies]

If you don't remember a time you needed a 810, I'd still suggest that maybe a fEarless/fEarful double 12" setup would be a great mark for you.

 

[s_wood]

I should have mentioned that, along with my 2 fEarful 15/6/1s I also have a fEarless 212. I love all 3 cabs. I am a bar band player, and I have to carry my own gear, so I initially chose the 15/6/1 (made of okume) because it weighs about 20lbs less than the F212. I usually use just one cab, but with 2 of them I can handle anything.

If you don’t mind the extra weight a single F212 will give you more power handling capability than a 15/6/1 and, because it’s a 4 ohm cab it Will make more efficient use of your amp’s power, especially if you were running a solid-state amp. (Thar’s why I eventually got one.) With 2 F212s you could pretty much rule the world.

 

[Raulplaysbass]

I purchased an F212 (tweeter delete) and its everything everyone says it is. About a year later I commissioned an F112 & since then the F212 hasn't been outta storage for a year and a half! The F112 covers all the gigs I've played large (FOH supported) and small. It's plenty loud but maybe not as loud as a high end 4x10, but the fidelity is 2nd to none IMHO. If I had to get 1 cab to do it all an F115 would have to be my choice but I prefer options. F112 I use in my blues & classic rock cover band & the F212 I use for my metal cover band & big stages. In eaither case, everything fits in my Honda!

 

[Kro]

If I had to get 1 cab to do it all an F115 would have to be my choice but I prefer options.

I did; no regrets. A little clunkier to move than the F112 and F212 (with wheels), but it's relatively inexpensive compared to the F212, and boy does it perform!

 

[Raulplaysbass]

I did; no regrets. A little clunkier to move than the F112 and F212 (with wheels), but it's relatively inexpensive compared to the F212, and boy does it perform!

View attachment 3004798

That looks pretty deadly. Fits a rack on top nicely.

I love it when the sound guy comes to visit the stage after sound check looking for a bigger cab!

 

[Kro]

That looks pretty deadly. Fits a rack on top nicely.

I love it when the sound guy comes to visit the stage after sound check looking for a bigger cab!

It might be hard to believe to some, but to my ears, that 8 ohm F115 is way more sensitive than that 4ohm Hartke vx215 behind it. That shot is from my rehearsal space, and typically I’m too lazy to bring the Fearless and so use the Hartke (always with my amp). When I do use my F115 in that same room, with the same band, same drums, I always have to significantly turn down the master on my 1001RB – like by a 1/5 turn of the knob (whatever that means).

Still, it’s one direct head-to-head point of reference.

 

[Dave Hill]

I’ve heard, from a reliable source, that an F215 is off the chain. Like an F212, but, WAY more.

 

[Dave Hill]

View attachment 3004779 View attachment 3004780 I purchased an F212 (tweeter delete) and its everything everyone says it is. About a year later I commissioned an F112 & since then the F212 hasn't been outta storage for a year and a half! The F112 covers all the gigs I've played large (FOH supported) and small. It's plenty loud but maybe not as loud as a high end 4x10, but the fidelity is 2nd to none IMHO. If I had to get 1 cab to do it all an F115 would have to be my choice but I prefer options. F112 I use in my blues & classic rock cover band & the F212 I use for my metal cover band & big stages.

How much you want for the F212?

 

[drumandbass75]

I use a 15/6, no tweeter, and it rules for reggae.

That statement right there is why the 15/6 will remain in my top 3 of choices for my fEARful/fEARless. I play Reggae more than anything else, so it's very important for me have the right cab for the job.

Thanks HolmeBass

 

[drumandbass75]

I've been playing roots reggae for a long time and I love my two fEARful 12/6s. I bought one from an AB and built the second mirror baffle one myself. I briefly tried a 12sub, but I much prefer the flexibility of having the two 12/6s.

This setup is high on my list for consideration for the options of stacking, or just going with one cab for smaller gigs. I REALLY, REALLY like the idea of BurningSkies' 15/6+15sub setup, I just don't know if I can convince myself to go that BIG right out the gate. I have no doubt about its capabilities, I'm just trying not to do an overkill with the real estate aspect of it all.

 

[drumandbass75]

If you don't remember a time you needed a 810, I'd still suggest that maybe a fEarless/fEarful double 12" setup would be a great mark for you.

Thanks BurningSkies, if you had to choose, which out of the 3 would you recommend? The fEARful 1212/6, 1212sub or fEARless f212?

 

[singlemalt]

Couple questions for ya, Drumsandbass.

Are you going the DIY route?
And, do you usually have satisfactory FOH at shows?
Last, is there budget constraints?

Not all FOH systems are up to the task. Some rooms will sound better if you don’t even put your bass through the system. So you’ll need some power and a bigger rig. The Burningskies rig is all that and then some.

If your rig is basically a monitor for the stage, you can get away with less. 12/6’s are not to be underestimated. If you can’t remember the last time you needed the fridge...

Remember, your going to get a much broader, deeper range. It’s a revelation the first time you here these cabs. Like getting a new bass and amp in the bargain.

As far as budget, stepping up to the 15/6 adds about $100 to the cost of the mid driver and a few bucks to the crossover.

If you play around with the prices of the main components, the 30xxLF, and the mid drivers, and horns( if you want them), you’ll start to see the differences. Wood cost, if you are full on DIY are not that big a deal. I can get a cube out of a $33 5x5 sheet of B.B. ply.

I’ve built the pair of 15/6/1’s. Just because. Never came close to needing all of it. The biggest rig I’ve taken was a 12/6 cube over the 15/6/1. Scared the sound guys. With my GK 1001, I could bury stupid loud guitars.

I’ve never come up short with just one 12/6 cube and decent FOH. The pair of cubes gets louder than I would ever need.

If you just want to dip a toe in, build a 12/6. The last one I built, I picked up the drivers and crossover from the TB classifieds. I’m into that cab for about $300.

And the 15/6/1’s I built, used, and enjoyed and then sold, covered my costs to build. The time I spent on the builds was satisfactory puttering in the shop.

It’s a great project with little downside risk. Just don’t drink until the tools are down for the day.

12/6 cube shaping up at the end of a nice afternoon without adult supervision.

 

[drumandbass75]

I have several fEARful cabinets. The ones getting the most use are a 1212/6/1, a 12/6/1 cube, and a 15/6/1. As much as I love the 12/6/1, it stays in the rehearsal space because it is harder to move that the tilt-back wheel equipped 1212/6/1. Yes, when I am playing Reggae, the 1212/6/1 usually is enough. In fact, a 15/6/1 is enough 90% of the time. Don't use the 15 sub much now, but that may change soon.

fEARfuls can be used in any combination, as long as you are not running just a sub, and the nominal impedance matches your amp. A 15/6/1 can be combined with a mirror image 15/1/6, a 15 sub, 12 sub, 12/6/1 cube, or even 15/15/6/1 or 1212/6/1, though the last two would be a 2.67 ohm load. Have not used a 1515/66/1.

The 210 / 410 pairing is flexible, especially if you have a 4 ohm 410, an 8 ohm 210 with identical drivers, and a 2.67 ohm capable amp or a two channel power amp—but I digress.

To replace the 210 / 410 cabs, consider starting with a 15/6/1. It has the 410 covered. Then add a 12/6/1 cube. That cab will stack perfectly with aligned mid and HF drivers on a 15/6/1. A 15/1/6 would also work. To me, the 15/6/1, 12/6/1, and even the 1212/6/1 all sound essentially the same. The 15 sub (or 12 sub) won't work well stand alone.

A well-made fEARful is not heavy, but you will likely want a cart or hand truck. fEARfuls like a lot of clean power. A 15/6/1 + 15/1/6 (mirror baffle layout) could handle a Mesa carbine m9 to clipping, and likewise a GK MB800, and a Mesa Subway. I switched to a Crest Prolite 3.0. Bridged, it is enough for the 15/6/1 + 15/1/6 pair or 15/6/1 + 15 sub. Warning: you CAN fart out a 15/6/1 with a bridged Crest Prolite 3.0 and a hot pre-amp.

Hey Jim, I just want to say that I took the time to read, & re-read your post following the recommendations. This time around, I had the time to open a 2nd browser to watch pictures in another window of every combo, or standalone setup that you've explained so clearly in your post. Thanks again for being so detailed, & forthcoming...seriously.

 

[drumandbass75]

Are you going the DIY route?

Definitely a DIY project, but I won't be the builder. I have at least 3 Master Carpenters that I have access to, one of them happens to be a Bassist, and my cousin as well so I know I'm in good hands if he builds it for me. He's extremely hyped about building one for himself as well. Part of my homework here on TalkBass is also for him. He trusts my judgment in finding new gear, as we have similar needs. The only difference in musical style, is he plays loads of Salsa & Latin Jazz...both of which can have some nice warm tones as well

And, do you usually have satisfactory FOH at shows?

Short answer is yes I do

Last, is there budget constraints?

Not really, I already know what I'm getting into pricewise for these cabs. The musical items on my mind right now budget wise are NOT bass cabs. I'm also shopping around for a "USED" rack mounted amp like a Crest, Lab Gruppen, Crown, etc...those are at the forefront of my budget concerns right now. I have an Eden WT800 & an Ashdown Little Giant 1000, and they both work like a champ, but I've also been considering a rack mounted power amp rig as well.

If you play around with the prices of the main components, the 30xxLF, and the mid drivers, and horns( if you want them), you’ll start to see the differences. Wood cost, if you are full on DIY are not that big a deal. I can get a cube out of a $33 5x5 sheet of B.B. ply

This is right up my cousin's alley, he's a Bassist/Carpenter, so he'll appreciate this.

If you just want to dip a toe in, build a 12/6. The last one I built, I picked up the drivers and crossover from the TB classifieds. I’m into that cab for about $300.

That's encouraging

 

[BigBasserino]

So just for the sake of dummy questions... these cabs can obviously do the punk rock bass tone? Would a 15/6 (what I've been thinking of building for a while) kill the ears, the 6 driver I mean? Just to give you an idea of my ears, I have a Peavey TNT130 (semi - transparent, I think), so I'm used to just playing through 15s. As far as a combo goes it never lets me down. But I want to go bigger and documentation seems to indicate I'll get a volume/tone boost that will last. But I do have tinnitus around the 3500hz range ...it's enough that when I go to gigs or watch bands I have a pair of Hearos shoved in my ears when I can pull it off. Should I go with a mid driver?

 

[Kro]

So just for the sake of dummy questions... these cabs can obviously do the punk rock bass tone? Would a 15/6 (what I've been thinking of building for a while) kill the ears, the 6 driver I mean? Just to give you an idea of my ears, I have a Peavey TNT130 (semi - transparent, I think), so I'm used to just playing through 15s. As far as a combo goes it never lets me down. But I want to go bigger and documentation seems to indicate I'll get a volume/tone boost that will last. But I do have tinnitus around the 3500hz range ...it's enough that when I go to gigs or watch bands I have a pair of Hearos shoved in my ears when I can pull it off. Should I go with a mid driver?

A large chunk of why these cabs perform as well as they do is because they use very high excursion (moving in and out) low frequency drivers which are able to move more air than your typical drivers. The tradeoff of all of that is that they're not fantastic at producing (or do weird things with) frequencies around the higher end of what a typical driver will do before the high frequencies roll off. Using a mid-driver with the low-frequency driver is the natural solution to smooth over and/or fill in the gap.

I guess that's a long way of saying I'm not sure why the mid-driver would "kill the ears" - especially if you can EQ to taste. The mid-driver is simply a necessity if you want to utilize the benefits of the low frequency drivers these cabs employ and don't want to sound like mud.

I've absolutely used mine for punk rock-ish tones. While we don't bill ourselves as such, one of my bands has a heavy punk-rock influence (we like to refer to our style as "whiskey rock"). My VTDI and playing style helps a good bit, but it sounds fantastic to my ears with a little EQ. YMMV.

 

[popgadget]

If you are going to build (or have a friend build) your own cab, that narrows it down to the fEARful cabs.
A 1212/6/1 is the best compromise as far as capability and portability. With a tilt back handle and wheels, it’s very easy to move, and a lot smaller and lighter than an 810, and goes noticeably lower (assuming it’s an Ampeg 810e).
As Dave Hill stated, it’s hard to imagine that you would ever need more cab.

 

[Raulplaysbass]

How much you want for the F212?

Thanks but, I still like having that option!