fEARful/fEARless - Guidance Needed

[BigBasserino]

A large chunk of why these cabs perform as well as they do is because they use very high excursion (moving in and out) low frequency drivers which are able to move more air than your typical drivers. The tradeoff of all of that is that they're not fantastic at producing (or do weird things with) frequencies around the higher end of what a typical driver will do before the high frequencies roll off. Using a mid-driver with the low-frequency driver is the natural solution to smooth over and/or fill in the gap.

I guess that's a long way of saying I'm not sure why the mid-driver would "kill the ears" - especially if you can EQ to taste. The mid-driver is simply a necessity if you want to utilize the benefits of the low frequency drivers these cabs employ and don't want to sound like mud.

I've absolutely used mine for punk rock-ish tones. While we don't bill ourselves as such, one of my bands has a heavy punk-rock influence (we like to refer to our style as "whiskey rock"). My VTDI and playing style helps a good bit, but it sounds fantastic to my ears with a little EQ. YMMV.

Ah, so that's the reason for the 6 in general. I've never really played with a tweeter or anything so I'm looking cautiously. There seems to be a high end ring that I'm guessing can be EQ'd down (I'd like to do overdrive tones too) but I obviously want to build something that brings the bacon that I can attenuate too. Generally I can hear the ring in YouTube videos





But I hear a lot of great tone in there as well.

Notice you're from Jersey. ...I live in the north central area.

 

[popgadget]

View attachment 3004779 View attachment 3004780 I purchased an F212 (tweeter delete) and its everything everyone says it is. About a year later I commissioned an F112 & since then the F212 hasn't been outta storage for a year and a half! The F112 covers all the gigs I've played large (FOH supported) and small. It's plenty loud but maybe not as loud as a high end 4x10, but the fidelity is 2nd to none IMHO. If I had to get 1 cab to do it all an F115 would have to be my choice but I prefer options. F112 I use in my blues & classic rock cover band & the F212 I use for my metal cover band & big stages. In eaither case, everything fits in my Honda!

That F112 looks familiar!

 

[popgadget]

A large chunk of why these cabs perform as well as they do is because they use very high excursion (moving in and out) low frequency drivers which are able to move more air than your typical drivers. The tradeoff of all of that is that they're not fantastic at producing (or do weird things with) frequencies around the higher end of what a typical driver will do before the high frequencies roll off. Using a mid-driver with the low-frequency driver is the natural solution to smooth over and/or fill in the gap.

Another significant benefit of the smaller midrange driver is that it has better off axis performance than a larger driver.

 

[Raulplaysbass]

That F112 looks familiar!

Hey there! People always ask what Ampeg model it is! Been pumping 1600 watts threw it since day 1 except when I used the SVTII!

Thanks Paul!

 

[kartiste]

A large chunk of why these cabs perform as well as they do is because they use very high excursion (moving in and out) low frequency drivers which are able to move more air than your typical drivers. The tradeoff of all of that is that they're not fantastic at producing (or do weird things with) frequencies around the higher end of what a typical driver will do before the high frequencies roll off. Using a mid-driver with the low-frequency driver is the natural solution to smooth over and/or fill in the gap.

I guess that's a long way of saying I'm not sure why the mid-driver would "kill the ears" - especially if you can EQ to taste. The mid-driver is simply a necessity if you want to utilize the benefits of the low frequency drivers these cabs employ and don't want to sound like mud.

I've absolutely used mine for punk rock-ish tones. While we don't bill ourselves as such, one of my bands has a heavy punk-rock influence (we like to refer to our style as "whiskey rock"). My VTDI and playing style helps a good bit, but it sounds fantastic to my ears with a little EQ. YMMV.

I don't think the mid-driver is always a necessity. The Faital 15FH520 models nearly identically to the 3015LF at the low end on excursion and SPL at same power and box size, but the response curve goes fairly smoothly to 3k, vs the fruitiness beginning at 1k with the 3015LF. Granted, different manufacturers can use different test methods, but to my ears the Faital is fine without a mid. They cost me the same as 3015LF's would have.

 

[kartiste]

I don't think the mid-driver is always a necessity. The Faital 15FH520 models nearly identically to the 3015LF at the low end on excursion and SPL at same power and box size, but the response curve goes fairly smoothly to 3k, vs the fruitiness beginning at 1k with the 3015LF. Granted, different manufacturers can use different test methods, but to my ears the Faital is fine without a mid. They cost me the same as 3015LF's would have.

Pic.

I think these would kill for reggae.

 

[Kro]

I don't think the mid-driver is always a necessity. The Faital 15FH520 models nearly identically to the 3015LF at the low end on excursion and SPL at same power and box size, but the response curve goes fairly smoothly to 3k*, vs the fruitiness beginning at 1k with the 3015LF.

*On axis.

I guess it just comes down to preference - some users won't want anything other than a 3-way cab, some won't miss the tweeter, and some like you wouldn't mind having less 3-5kHz either (or something probably like 1.5-5kHz off axis). As @popgadget noted, dispersion is another potential reason why a mid driver may be beneficial, and in looking at the frequency response of that Faital, while it does seem pretty decent, for many users an accompanying mid might still prove beneficial depending on their tastes.

As always though, ears are the best judge - and no doubt that's a great looking set that you have. (Also a good-looking F210 peeking out from the corner)!

 

[drumandbass75]

Pic.View attachment 3005480 I think these would kill for reggae.

I agree...no mids though?

 

[Kro]

Notice you're from Jersey. ...I live in the north central area.

Yup, I'm a 609-er. I live and do most of my rehearsing just east of Princeton. While my apartment is no good for playing at any sort of volume, if you're nearby, you're welcome to stop by late-night at the end of a rehearsal to hear the F115 in person.

Or you could do what I did and cross the border into Bucks County to go visit Greenboy Authorized Builder @popgadget who built my F115 and test any demo models he has on hand. Word of warning: be prepared to lose some cash if you go that route - if you find that the sound is for you, it isn't easy to walk away without putting in an order.

 

[BadExample]

Bummer eh?

+

I'm located somewhere in the beautiful Sunny Caribbean.

=
NO.

 

[BigBasserino]

Yup, I'm a 609-er. I live and do most of my rehearsing just east of Princeton. While my apartment is no good for playing at any sort of volume, if you're nearby, you're welcome to stop by late-night at the end of a rehearsal to hear the F115 in person.

Or you could do what I did and cross the border into Bucks County to go visit Greenboy Authorized Builder @popgadget who built my F115 and test any demo models he has on hand. Word of warning: be prepared to lose some cash if you go that route - if you find that the sound is for you, it isn't easy to walk away without putting in an order.

Cool, ya I'm a 908-er. Maybe I'll take you up on that. Idk, honestly I got pulled in by Greenboy's spiel of "build higher quality cabinets than the consumer grade". Kinda reminds me of the pcmasterrace revolution. Like I said, I'm not too concerned with character cabs, I do like a bright tone, just not looking to scrape up my eardrums. One of these days I'll get a flat pack or make my own.

 

[Jim Carr]

Thought I might add a couple of rig pics...Can't find one of the 1212/6/1 or the 12/6/1, but here are some 15/6/1 pics and a 15sub. I now use a Crest Prolite 3.0 and an old ART model 259 preamp for TX and HI. Sometimes use a Mesa Subway 800 with the upright when running a magnetic Krivo pickup on the upright. Yes, 800 watts into a 4 ohm 1212/6/1.
For upright. Yup.

Texas reggae rig:

Hawaii reggae rig:

 

[drumandbass75]

Thought I might add a couple of rig pics...Can't find one of the 1212/6/1 or the 12/6/1, but here are some 15/6/1 pics and a 15sub. I now use a Crest Prolite 3.0 and an old ART model 259 preamp for TX and HI. Sometimes use a Mesa Subway 800 with the upright when running a magnetic Krivo pickup on the upright. Yes, 800 watts into a 4 ohm 1212/6/1.
For upright. Yup.

Texas reggae rig:
View attachment 3006490
That's a MEAN looking rig in Texas Jim.
Hawaii reggae rig:
View attachment 3006492

 

[Jim Carr]

I found a decent recent picture of me and the 1212/6/1 hanging on stage in Austin with the upright doing a "Tristan Thorndyke and the RocknRoll Cannibals" gig in Fall 2017. N.B., the head is the much vaunted Crest prolite 3.0 and the old ART pre in a 3 space rack bag. Total weight about 23 lbs. for the head. I was also in FOH via countryman type 85, as if it was needed.

And another from the same gig, but probably before we started. Note magnetic pickup (Krivo) at end of fingerboard.

 

[Stumbo]

I found a decent recent picture of me and the 1212/6/1 hanging on stage in Austin with the upright doing a "Tristan Thorndyke and the RocknRoll Cannibals" gig in Fall 2017. N.B., the head is the much vaunted Crest prolite 3.0 and the old ART pre in a 3 space rack bag. Total weight about 23 lbs. for the head. I was also in FOH via countryman type 85, as if it was needed.

View attachment 3006609


And another from the same gig, but probably before we started. Note magnetic pickup (Krivo) at end of fingerboard.View attachment 3006610

Good hair!

 

[Ian Lewis]

Ah, so that's the reason for the 6 in general. I've never really played with a tweeter or anything so I'm looking cautiously. There seems to be a high end ring that I'm guessing can be EQ'd down (I'd like to do overdrive tones too) but I obviously want to build something that brings the bacon that I can attenuate too. Generally I can hear the ring in YouTube videos





But I hear a lot of great tone in there as well.

Notice you're from Jersey. ...I live in the north central area.

The horn on the fearless 112H has an attenuator, so you can turn it down/off if you like. Actually you can order the f112 without a horn if you prefer. I like it for playing (HiFi) MP3 through whilst practicing and I turn down the (8kHZ) Treble control on my amp so my bass isn't too toppy.

 

[BigBasserino]

View attachment 3048667
The horn on the fearless 112H has an attenuator, so you can turn it down/off if you like.

Nice. If I ever get around to it I probably want to go bigger, but good to know. Thanks.

 

[Ian Lewis]

Nice. If I ever get around to it I probably want to go bigger, but good to know. Thanks.

Two of them would easily handle 800W and outperform most 4x10s, or 2x15s.

 

[boamedt]

For reggae there is no other way to go than feearful/fearless. I play reggae exclusively and have not found a better tone. I built a 15/6 and it was phenomenal, more clear bottom end than any cab i have ever used. I only sold it to help pay for my wedding. With the agreement i could build another one later. So then i built 2 12/6s because the 15/6 wont fit in my 350z. The 2 12/6s were glorious and aounded superb for reggae. Just as much low end as the 15 but in a smaller lighter (35lbs) package. I run mine with a mesa boogie pre/di and a crest prolite 3.0.... do yourself a favor, get a fearful. And you dont need the tweeter

 

[Raulplaysbass]

And you dont need the tweeter
View attachment 3049912

I went tweeterless on my F212. Don’t miss it. That 5” covers all my high end needs. I have the tweeter in my F112 and it’s nothing like what I’m used to. Not glassy at all. No hiss. Defines the top end more. To my ears.