get a little bastard from ashdown. or maybe zvex will make a bass amp like their micro guitar amp
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
fEARful part 13: the bad luck's done, son
- Thread starter greenboy
- Start date
- Status
In the meantime, TB'er and fEARful contributor Duke Lejeune has provided plans for a nice, little, 110 cab. The thread is here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/low-cost-diy-practice-coffeehouse-tweeterless-110-[long]-736360/
I'm not trying to a smart @$$ here, but every bass guitar and amp I've ever seen have volume controls.
I've backed up a single unamplified acoustic guitar and un-mic'd voice while using a GK 1001RB II and a fEARful 12/6. No one said I was too loud.
Unless the problem is that the sound guy and director are "hearing with their eyes", a smaller cab won't automatically make you less loud.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Gotta laugh that people think they need a speaker cab and amp for every few dB of change. Almost as ridiculous as thinking using the EQ knobs/sliders is bad - it's bad.
Link Removed
wcriley said:
Yeeesssss, I know all amps have volume controls!
lolDug dog is right, I think the visual aspect does have a lot to do with it. Early on when I was playing with them, I brought in a 4x10 ONCE. We were playing in the bigger 500 seat sanctuary, so I brought it just in case. I didn't even get to turn it on. Lol
The last "discussion" with the director occured during a Christmas gig. I was set up where I always am every Sunday, but we had extra musicians/vocalists. For these shows, the drum kit, auxillary percussion and tympani were set up 2 feet directly in front of me, so I brought a slightly larger amp (my Ampeg 1x15 setup. I know, I know... What was I thinking, right?!
) BUT... I had dialed OUT low end from both the amp AND my bass before I turned up to where I could hear myself against all that banging. Apparently *I* was still the one that was too loud. 
Go figure. lolI do think the normal room we play in also has a lot to do with it... It was very poorly designed and arranged, a 250 seat brick and glass rectangle with NO form of sound management (sound proofing, drum cage, etc) whatsoever because they "don't like the look." And even *I* wouldn't have put the speakers where the "sound experts" they hired
did: positioned vertically right at person level... Anyone with a mic is basically standing right in front of the speakers. But that's another conversation. LolA 1x10 (or 1x8) would be nice because the smaller look wouldn't be so intimidating and might be easier to work with in the room... and with the director.
5sg.
Some years ago, I was working with a band who's "soundman" would solo every vocal mic, with headphones on, and if he could hear any bass, would complain about me being too loud.
Once, he got onstage, and changed settings on my amp while I was playing.
Those of you in the St. Louis, MO, area, probably have a pretty good idea of who this is...
Once, he got onstage, and changed settings on my amp while I was playing.
Those of you in the St. Louis, MO, area, probably have a pretty good idea of who this is...
Ouch!
After that discussion with my director (translation: she was shouting at me over all the percussion), I turned down of course, but after the show even the guitar player looked over and told me he couldn't hear me and he stands right next to me. I'm a volunteer and am good friends with my director, but... volunteer or not, if the she went that far, she'd probably be looking for for another bassist. Tell me what you want an I'LL change my settings. YOU don't get to touch my gear.
5sg.
I think you might consider going IEM if possible. That way you could actually hear yourself and the sound guy can turn you down as much as they want.Yeeesssss, I know all amps have volume controls!
Dug dog is right, I think the visual aspect does have a lot to do with it. Early on when I was playing with them, I brought in a 4x10 ONCE. We were playing in the bigger 500 seat sanctuary, so I brought it just in case. I didn't even get to turn it on. Lol
The last "discussion" with the director occured during a Christmas gig. I was set up where I always am every Sunday, but we had extra musicians/vocalists. For these shows, the drum kit, auxillary percussion and tympani were set up 2 feet directly in front of me, so I brought a slightly larger amp (my Ampeg 1x15 setup. I know, I know... What was I thinking, right?!
I do think the normal room we play in also has a lot to do with it... It was very poorly designed and arranged, a 250 seat brick and glass rectangle with NO form of sound management (sound proofing, drum cage, etc) whatsoever because they "don't like the look." And even *I* wouldn't have put the speakers where the "sound experts" they hired
A 1x10 (or 1x8) would be nice because the smaller look wouldn't be so intimidating and might be easier to work with in the room... and with the director.
5sg.
Another idea is using a wedge style 110 monitor. They are small, and do not look intimidating. Plus the low-end is inherently weak so you wont be able to get loud. Also being a wedge you could put it in front of you and aim it directly at your head/ears.
::::BASSIST:::: said:
Yeah... I've come to the realization that an in-ear option is probably where I'll end up, but I'm not particularly keen on the idea. My 1x12 is a Hartke Kickback that I do use as a monitor, so I figure a smaller cab is one last shot before going the in-ear route.
Besides, I've wanted to try building a cab for a while. Maybe try that 1x8 for kicks to see if it works at church, then something bigger like a fEARful 15/tube to match my Ampeg V4B.
Sorry for the thread derail Greenboy! So you're working on a 1x8, huh? Can you tell us more?
5sg.
Man if you have to use in ear monitors just to hear your self cause the sound guy has you turned off then whats the point of being up there!! I gotten to the point anymore that if they dont like the bass then they better not ask me to play.....I have gone blue on the face at times trying to tell them that just because it is loud on stage does not mean it is loud out there. thats why we have monitors. it is not about the stage volume it is about the Front of the house mix!!...man i have packed an 810 to some of the smallest gigs....the band mates freaked but out in the crowd it was perfect...i was not playing loud just had it quiet but it was very filling. thats why i would not down size if i were you. cause some times the smaller the cab the louder it will seam because it does not have the filling volume so it will sound very loud in one spot where as will a bigger rig you dont have to have it turned up as loud and it will fill out everywhere and be more balanced instead of just beaming from one spot!!
+1 to Elliot's comments.Yeah... I've come to the realization that an in-ear option is probably where I'll end up, but I'm not particularly keen on the idea. My 1x12 is a Hartke Kickback that I do use as a monitor, so I figure a smaller cab is one last shot before going the in-ear route.
Besides, I've wanted to try building a cab for a while. Maybe try that 1x8 for kicks to see if it works at church, then something bigger like a fEARful 15/tube to match my Ampeg V4B.
Sorry for the thread derail Greenboy! So you're working on a 1x8, huh? Can you tell us more?
5sg.
Honestly if you already have a Hartke Kickback 112 I would just keep using that... placed in front of you. The problem is not your equipment, its "them". Sounds like no matter what you use, there will be issues.
Now if you want to build something, I'd just go for a 12/6. It packs a wallop and will be useful throughout your playing career.
Just remember there will always be gigs out there with bands that will enjoy what you bring to the stage...so dont feel bad if you have to part ways because they dont want to work with you.....in the end it is their loss not yours!!
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Preach it Brother. I won't do those gigs. Not worth it for me if I can't hear myself. Not worth it for me if the audience can't hear me either. If everyone on the stage is turned down to whisper level I'll consider it.
Luckily, I don't play that kind of situation and I'm in the situation of being a band shots-caller...along with our keyboard player, and to a secondary level, the rest of the guys.
The good news is that us fEARful players have much more useable volume than most other players. Because the speakers are so clean and clear, many soundmen don't complain about volume...because without all that speaker distortion you're not noisy. Sometimes it doesn't even feel "loud" because we're so used to that distortion.
12/6 cube is perfect in my experience for church work.
I tend to eq out some of the upper mids when working with a choir, and go for a really earthy tone.
Good Directors are first and foremost focused on hearing the harmony "success" of the vocalists, and too much mids from a bass will muddy up things for them.
I am fortunate enough to have made friends with a couple of top Directors, and was surprised to find how differently they listen than we do.
Why I like the 12/6 in that environment is it takes well to eq and I can put some real umph under a choir in a box that is easy for me to haul up stairs. I'm not sure a smaller box would work, as there may well be too much distortion muddying things up.
I tend to eq out some of the upper mids when working with a choir, and go for a really earthy tone.
Good Directors are first and foremost focused on hearing the harmony "success" of the vocalists, and too much mids from a bass will muddy up things for them.
I am fortunate enough to have made friends with a couple of top Directors, and was surprised to find how differently they listen than we do.
Why I like the 12/6 in that environment is it takes well to eq and I can put some real umph under a choir in a box that is easy for me to haul up stairs. I'm not sure a smaller box would work, as there may well be too much distortion muddying things up.
At my church we're looking forward to getting rid of the bass amp and putting everyone on IEMs. The stage volume interferes with the FOH mix badly. The bass is already through the mains and sub, the amp isn't really contributing to the FOH mix, it's competing with it.
I'd kill for a Hartke 112 kickback over our current rig. Or any kickback for that matter. Right now the bass players at my church play through a Crate 115 that sits behind them blasting at the backs of their legs. It's no wonder they have trouble hearing themselves.
I've considered buying a Fender Rumble 30 watt 1x10 amp out of pocket so that the bass players at my church can hear themselves without having to crank the amp.
I'd kill for a Hartke 112 kickback over our current rig. Or any kickback for that matter. Right now the bass players at my church play through a Crate 115 that sits behind them blasting at the backs of their legs. It's no wonder they have trouble hearing themselves.
I've considered buying a Fender Rumble 30 watt 1x10 amp out of pocket so that the bass players at my church can hear themselves without having to crank the amp.
Not to take away from greenboy, but as a suggestion for a solution to the church issue, how about an EA Wizzy 12-m cab? I only played one once, and briefly, but I did notice pretty even sound from various angles, possibly as a result of the side venting. Would that cab work on its side to send more sound up to the players ears without pushing out into the church, or would that orientation kill the cab? There is already a Wizzy 10 too. However, I've also not ever played a fearful, so I can't offer any comment in how those EA cabs compare. Perhaps a more experienced TB member can chime in.
As for the volume control comments, yes they are there, and yes, it seems a simple solution. However, I have noticed the feel difference in playing various amps at different gain settings, in terms of attack, compression, and EQ. Perhaps a smaller cab would provide the volume reduction being sought without changing the feel or sweet spot being sought.
Of course, as with any cab, we are dealing with long bass wavelengths, and every cab sounds different, often louder, once you get to audience distance vs. player distance. You may just be fighting the nature of the beast.
As for the volume control comments, yes they are there, and yes, it seems a simple solution. However, I have noticed the feel difference in playing various amps at different gain settings, in terms of attack, compression, and EQ. Perhaps a smaller cab would provide the volume reduction being sought without changing the feel or sweet spot being sought.
Of course, as with any cab, we are dealing with long bass wavelengths, and every cab sounds different, often louder, once you get to audience distance vs. player distance. You may just be fighting the nature of the beast.
Gotta be careful of those long wavelengths. If you aren't, they'll sneak right past you and you won't hear yourself at all.
- Status
