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fEARFUL the solution to everything

#141
guy n. cognito said:
...

Honestly, I'm seeing less and less "Marshall half stacks". Outside of the metal genre, most guitarists seem to be going with smaller and smaller amps and cabinets. It's not surprising today to see even national acts with a backline of smaller combo tube amps.

It's been my experience that, outside the limited confines of TB, most bassists don't think that 1,000 watts is a "minimum requirement" like most will parrot here. Again with "displacement", most are getting all of the stage volume they need with commercial offerings. Not to say there aren't more efficient offerings out there, but most players simply don't see the need.
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Different areas, different guitarists, different needs.

One bar band I play in has 2, one has a Fender Twin the other a Marshall half stack. Add in a drummer with the loudest kit I have ever heard and I get no PA support. If I could roll up to a gig with my bass and a DI pedal believe me I wouldn't be schlepping a bass rig. This is pretty much the norm for bands at the level I play, noisy friggin guitarists and drummers and no PA support.

I was dissatisfied with the 96lb rig I was lugging around so looked for something lighter with better sound quality. I considered Barefaced and almost pulled the trigger on one but being an incurable DIYer decided to build a fEARful 15/6. Best bass related decision I ever made (except building a 12/6 for smaller gigs) although I must admit it was a leap of faith.

I usually run at 325W (one side of a Peavey IPR1600) but I can if needed bridge it for 1kW but haven't needed to yet. 325W with the DDT just starting to come in is as much as I have required.
 
#142
CL400Peavey said:
If 210's were all anyone needed thats all that would be sold. I still see offerings of larger cabs from all manufacturers though.



If greater volume needs didnt exist there would be no "what is a louder rig than what I have?" threads.



My point is that this isnt a "confines of power" discussion. I can go pick up a 1,500 watt amp and pre amp for less cash than some 300 watt heads are going for. The confines of most amp/cab/volume discussions are the cab. People need to have realistic expectations of what their cab can do.
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I do to, but my local shops report that they sell more 410 and 212s than anything else. I recently got a great deal on a 610 because it had been sitting on the shop floor for about 2 years. 810s? They don't sell well around here.

My point above is that those of us that have taken the "custom cab" route sometimes fall into the assumption that other bassists are somehow missing out on something........a single cab capable of handling 1,000 watts.......PA like tone.....yet the reality is that the commercial market handles most of their needs. And this is where the fEarful crowd does themselves a disservice. People get sensitive around their gear. When you suggest to someone that their choice of gear somehow demonstrates their ignorance of the physics of live sound and that they have made an uneducated choice.....well.....you get threads like this. And we can all pretend that it doesn't happen, but it does. Less frequently now that some members have moved on to other forums, but it still happens.

As much as I like my custom 3-way cabs, I'm smart enough to realize that I'm not going to win any fans by trying to convince others that they are missing something if they don't go the same route. In reality, I could found any number of commercial cabs that would have fit my needs, but I like to experiment.
 
#144
delta7fred said:
Different areas, different guitarists, different needs.

One bar band I play in has 2, one has a Fender Twin the other a Marshall half stack. Add in a drummer with the loudest kit I have ever heard and I get no PA support. If I could roll up to a gig with my bass and a DI pedal believe me I wouldn't be schlepping a bass rig. This is pretty much the norm for bands at the level I play, noisy friggin guitarists and drummers and no PA support.

I was dissatisfied with the 96lb rig I was lugging around so looked for something lighter with better sound quality. I considered Barefaced and almost pulled the trigger on one but being an incurable DIYer decided to build a fEARful 15/6. Best bass related decision I ever made (except building a 12/6 for smaller gigs) although I must admit it was a leap of faith.

I usually run at 325W (one side of a Peavey IPR1600) but I can if needed bridge it for 1kW but haven't needed to yet. 325W with the DDT just starting to come in is as much as I have required.
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Actually, this kinda proves my point. You're competing with a loud drummer and big guitar rigs with a single 15 and 325w? Your 15/6 is capable of roughly double that. I love the kappa loaded 15 3-ways, but there are a significant number of commercial cab options that could have met your needs of lighter weight.
 
#145
guy n. cognito said:
Actually, this kinda proves my point. You're competing with a loud drummer and big guitar rigs with a single 15 and 325w? Your 15/6 is capable of roughly double that. I love the kappa loaded 15 3-ways, but there are a significant number of commercial cab options that could have met your needs of lighter weight.
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What in that weight range provides the same true low end extension?
 
#148
CL400Peavey said:
dont think so: -10 db at 42 hz...
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You're listening with your eyes, friend. Ever played through one? I have. Both the current version, and a few years through it's predecessor. In terms of usable low end, especially for 4 stringers, that series of cabs has plenty of punch. The tighter low end of the GB cabs might be appealing to some..........

How's that HPF working for you?
 
#149
guy n. cognito said:
You're listening with your eyes, friend. Ever played through one? I have. Both the current version, and a few years through it's predecessor. In terms of usable low end, especially for 4 stringers, that series of cabs has plenty of punch. The tighter low end of the GB cabs might be appealing to some..........

How's that HPF working for you?
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It may be appealing to some, it still doesnt put the cab into the range where it would contend with a fEARful box in terms of lows.

As far as the HPF goes, a sharp filter at 35 hz is vastly different than -10 db at 47 hz speaker roll off.
 
#150
CL400Peavey said:
It may be appealing to some, it still doesnt put the cab into the range where it would contend with a fEARful box in terms of lows.

As far as the HPF goes, a sharp filter at 35 hz is vastly different than -10 db at 47 hz speaker roll off.
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Yes, you are correct when we listen with paper. To the ear, most players would very content with the GBs low end. I was for many years. My 15/6 requires me to cut low end and install a HPF in my chain.

The direction of this conversation is exactly to my point. When someone suggests that another manufacturers cab might fit someone's needs, they get pummeled with the paper ears, statistics, measurements, and the like. The assumption is that everyone needs and wants uber-light, uber low end extension, and PA flat. They don't. Hell, we've got people on these boards that still gig with heavy, large tube heads!!!! The technology is so much better now!!! Don't those idiots know any better? ;):hiding:

When you cram things down people's throats, they tend to throw up. I'll leave you with that lovely visual.
 
#151
guy n. cognito said:
Yes, you are correct when we listen with paper. To the ear, most players would very content with the GBs low end. I was for many years. My 15/6 requires me to cut low end and install a HPF in my chain.

The direction of this conversation is exactly to my point. When someone suggests that another manufacturers cab might fit someone's needs, they get pummeled with the paper ears, statistics, measurements, and the like. The assumption is that everyone needs and wants uber-light, uber low end extension, and PA flat. They don't. Hell, we've got people on these boards that still gig with heavy, large tube heads!!!! The technology is so much better now!!! Don't those idiots know any better? ;):hiding:

When you cram things down people's throats, they tend to throw up. I'll leave you with that lovely visual.
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It's not being crammed down peoples' throats. The people who use fEarfuls truly believe that their cabs are more capable than commercial cabs of the same price point, and they share their opinion. The problem is how that argument is perceived by those who don't want to hear the fearful users' opinions. I have played thru 2x10s 4x10s 6x10s 8x10s from commercial companies. I truly believe than MANY bassists will BENEFIT and be more happy with one of the newer cabs from Audiokinesis or Greenboy Designs. No, not all bassists will. But the fearful crowd rarely (if ever) says that "all bassists SHOULD use this cab." It's much closer to "all bassists should TRY these newer cabs, at least, because they have a lot to offer that many older/commercial cabs don't." ;)
 
#153
guy n. cognito said:
Yes, you are correct when we listen with paper. To the ear, most players would very content with the GBs low end. I was for many years. My 15/6 requires me to cut low end and install a HPF in my chain.

The direction of this conversation is exactly to my point. When someone suggests that another manufacturers cab might fit someone's needs, they get pummeled with the paper ears, statistics, measurements, and the like. The assumption is that everyone needs and wants uber-light, uber low end extension, and PA flat. They don't. Hell, we've got people on these boards that still gig with heavy, large tube heads!!!! The technology is so much better now!!! Don't those idiots know any better? ;):hiding:

When you cram things down people's throats, they tend to throw up. I'll leave you with that lovely visual.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your contribution to the thread, you're one of the few who actually understood the point to this thread.
 
#154
Seems to me the point of the thread is troll bitching about other people's gear and the fact they like to talk about their gear.

The irony is that the ones bitching about fEARfuls keep claiming its other folks telling them what to use and what they should talk about - but of course that is opposite of what is happening.

Nobody cares what you use - really - so stop whining about what fEARful owners have chosen and stop reading their posts - and then your make believe problem is solved - and the thread is moot. :hyper:
 
#155
Foz said:
Seems to me the point of the thread is troll bitching about other people's gear and the fact they like to talk about their gear.

The irony is that the ones bitching about fEARfuls keep claiming its other folks telling them what to use and what they should talk about - but of course that is opposite of what is happening.

Nobody cares what you use - really - so stop whining about what fEARful owners have chosen and stop reading their posts - and then your make believe problem is solved - and the thread is moot. :hyper:
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You're almost there, yes the point to the thread is to stop bitching about other people gear, but nobody is bitching about fEARful.

True, I don't care what you are using too so...figure it out
 
#156
guy n. cognito said:
Actually, this kinda proves my point. You're competing with a loud drummer and big guitar rigs with a single 15 and 325w? Your 15/6 is capable of roughly double that. I love the kappa loaded 15 3-ways, but there are a significant number of commercial cab options that could have met your needs of lighter weight.
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That is true for weight, but where I live finding one locally would be nigh on impossible, music shops don't cater for bass players. If I walked into any of the music shops round here and asked for a top of the range bass rig I would probably be offered a Peavey/Ashdown/Marshall 15" combo. Add to that the fact that in the UK we pay at least as many £s as you in the USA do $s then it starts to get expensive.

Like I said I am incurable DIYer so the idea of building my own was in no way a deterrent.

As for frequency response, that is a completely different story. Believe what you will of the published specs, but unless they quote a frequency and a db point they mean absolutely nothing. Very much like amp manufacturers that just happen to forget to say whether their wattage figures are peak, music program, RMS, or car audio watts.

Being an (old) engineer unless they publish full specs I treat it as advertising literature. YMMV of course.
 
#157
The other side of the coin is this...

Suppose a new bassist is asking for opinions on what bass cab to get. Are the fEARful guys supposed to say nothing because we don't want to hurt the non-fEARful guys feelings? Are we supposed to keep our opinions to ourselves and not tell people to looking into fEARful, Barefaced or ThunderChild? I don't get it. The Sadowsky, Genz, and Ampeg guys will surely put there two cents in about what they like and why. I don't understand why the fEARful guys should not have the same right.
 
#158
::::BASSIST:::: said:
The other side of the coin is this...

Suppose a new bassist is asking for opinions on what bass cab to get. Are the fEARful guys supposed to say nothing because we don't want to hurt the non-fEARful guys feelings? Are we supposed to keep our opinions to ourselves and not tell people to looking into fEARful, Barefaced or ThunderChild? I don't get it. The Sadowsky, Genz, and Ampeg guys will surely put there two cents in about what they like and why. I don't understand why the fEARful guys should not have the same right.
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+1

A lot of recommendations for cabs with newer designs are usually accompanied with recommendations for different amps too. A lot of the time those are some of the big name manufacturers as well.

Ampeg, GK, Genz ect... They have all sounded great to my ears, I just happen to prefer them through a particular cab. Thats the sound I like, so I recommend it.
 
#159
guy n. cognito said:
I do to, but my local shops report that they sell more 410 and 212s than anything else. I recently got a great deal on a 610 because it had been sitting on the shop floor for about 2 years. 810s? They don't sell well around here.
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What does that have to do with whether or not people need big rigs or not? Given a choice between those and an 810, I'd take one of the smaller cabs, too. (The 2x12.) And then I'd take another with my other hand, and drag them both up to the counter, thus generating more sales for smaller cabs. :ninja:

Even with fEARfuls and the like, the smaller/modular versions (12/6, 15/6) are pretty popular.


Honestly, I'm seeing less and less "Marshall half stacks". Outside of the metal genre, most guitarists seem to be going with smaller and smaller amps and cabinets.
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Metal, hard rock, rock, punk, and a zillion variations of each... hey, that's a lot of musical territory. Around here, at the gigs I play, I'd wager the "half stack or more" outweighs the "smaller amp" crowd by at least 10 to one. I can count the ones I remember seeing on one hand... and two of those were because the stage was so small the guy decided against bringing their usual rig.

I would welcome smaller guitar amps, that'd be great. But I ain't seeing it in my circles yet. Hell, in my own bands it is often full stacks. (It ain't metal, either.)

I actually would have happily added another cab the other night. Pushed it hard enough that I was almost a little nervous about how much power I was dumping into it. (Yet it did just fine. Carve another notch into the "impressed me again" tree.)

When you suggest to someone that their choice of gear somehow demonstrates their ignorance of the physics of live sound and that they have made an uneducated choice.....well.....you get threads like this.
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Well, do they like and enjoy their rig or not? If so, why all the butt-hurt over any of the above, whether it be true or not? (Even folks that are plenty educated on the subject might choose, enjoy, or even prefer an old-school stack of 10's. Nothin' wrong with it.)

Rather than a "I just can't stand to hear about it" whiny sourpuss response.

More sensible: "Yeah, that's cool... but I'm pretty happy with mine, it works for me and my situations, so it's all good. Maybe I'd look into it if I were in the market for something new, but I'm not at the moment." Or perhaps "........." (Nothing at all.)


What if the Big E thing lives up to expectations, takes off, and is the next "super awesome" thing? Does that somehow change what I have, and what I already like? No. Can I sleep at night, knowing something that is "better" at some things might be out there? That I might not have the coolest or trendiest thing on the block? Sure I can. Why should I give a damn about something so trite?

Some people are just way too sensitive and easily offended. I'm curious to see a quote or two of this "bitching about other people's gear". Probably nothing but techie stuff involving acoustics and maybe midrange beaming. Goodness gracious, can't have that, might accidentally displease somebody that owns one.

:rolleyes:
 
#160
::::BASSIST:::: said:
The other side of the coin is this...

Suppose a new bassist is asking for opinions on what bass cab to get. Are the fEARful guys supposed to say nothing because we don't want to hurt the non-fEARful guys feelings? Are we supposed to keep our opinions to ourselves and not tell people to looking into fEARful, Barefaced or ThunderChild? I don't get it. The Sadowsky, Genz, and Ampeg guys will surely put there two cents in about what they like and why. I don't understand why the fEARful guys should not have the same right.
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Not at all, just don't say that the other stuff is crap and that the people playing them are stupid. Plus I don't think a new bassist would really understand the concept of fearful and get involved in the building of a cab. I believe fearful probably more intended for experienced gigging bassist.
 

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