Double Bass Feedback on my Bach

[Alexis Duntov]

Hi,


I just started this piece about two weeks ago. I’m about 8 years into double bass study but most of it has been jazz stuff and mostly pizz. I’ve studied Simandl for over a year and I have two instructors at the moment. I’m looking for feedback on everything. One thing I noticed just from watching this with the sound off is that I almost never use more than half of the bow, starting at the frog end. Also, I need to work on my bass face. Thanks in advance.

Dropbox - Bach Menuet.mov - Simplify your life

 

[unbrokenchain]

Feedbach? Seems like you could relax a little more. All I got

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hi,


I just started this piece about two weeks ago. I’m about 8 years into double bass study but most of it has been jazz stuff and mostly pizz. I’ve studied Simandl for over a year and I have two instructors at the moment. I’m looking for feedback on everything. One thing I noticed just from watching this with the sound off is that I almost never use more than half of the bow, starting at the frog end. Also, I need to work on my bass face. Thanks in advance.

Dropbox - Bach Menuet.mov - Simplify your life

Arrrh...the bow be a harsh mistress! (Never mind me. If just got through watching The Lighthouse.)

But seriously, I'll just chip in a couple of observations. Your bowing wrist looks almost rigid. The motion and weight should flow down your back, shoulder, elbow, arm and be put into to the string with a relaxed and flexible wrist. Keep doing long tones (if you're doing them) and try to get smooth bow changes by using the wrist to mediate the change in direction.

As far as your left arm goes, it looks like sometimes your elbow is dropping which leads to a collapsed left hand and fingers. You want the same idea as the other arm in that, the weight is transferred through your back shoulders arm all the way to your fingers. To do that, you don't want any "kinks" in the chain., like an elbow that drops or fingers that collapse.

I know it seems like many things to think about at one time, but once you get your basic mechanics internalized, you can focus more on bowings, fingerings, intonation, dynamics, etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Arrrh...the bow be a harsh mistress! (Never mind me. If just got through watching The Lighthouse.)

But seriously, I'll just chip in a couple of observations. Your bowing wrist looks almost rigid. The motion and weight should flow down your back, shoulder, elbow, arm and be put into to the string with a relaxed and flexible wrist. Keep doing long tones (if you're doing them) and try to get smooth bow changes by using the wrist to mediate the change in direction.

As far as your left arm goes, it looks like sometimes your elbow is dropping which leads to a collapsed left hand and fingers. You want the same idea as the other arm in that, the weight is transferred through your back shoulders arm all the way to your fingers. To do that, you don't want any "kinks" in the chain., like an elbow that drops or fingers that collapse.

I know it seems like many things to think about at one time, but once you get your basic mechanics internalized, you can focus more on bowings, fingerings, intonation, dynamics, etc.

Hope this helps.

That’s definitely helpful. I see folks frequently talking about “long tones” and while I think I get the basic idea, do you have any exercises, charts, videos etc.? I tried working on major minor seventh arpeggios today and really focusing on the wrist pivot on up vs. down bows, but it was too much to focus on at once and intonation won the face off at the expense of correct bow changes. I need something very simple to drill just bow changes and long tones. Thanks again.

 

[Carl Hillman]

David Allan Moore: This is about smooth bow changes , which is part of what you are working on when you are doing long tones.



Exercise 1 is about violin-specific long tones, but it can be applied to the bass.

https://www.simonfischeronline.com/uploads/5/7/7/9/57796211/067slowb.pdf

You can find the bass version with some variations in Mark Morton's Tortuous Exercises book.

 

[Phil Rowan]

This video by Dennis Whittaker also offers some great insight and exercises related to long tones:

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm less qualified than others to comment on the bow aspects, so I'll leave that alone. Also, for some reason when I watch the video, the picture and audio are not in sync.

Your intonation sounds pretty good, so that's a great start. Musically, I would think about what you want each phrase to sound like and have a clear idea of that before introducing the mechanics of the bass playing, so that everything flows outward from the personal musical conception and not the other way around.

I am sometimes invited to visit classical bass studio classes and critique student performances. In these instances, I almost always begin with asking the student in question to sing the phrase or phrases that they are technically struggling with. Most of the time, the result of this is that the conception is not yet strong enough to provide a good roadmap to lead the technique, and the result of that is this sort of "tail walks the dog" approach that impedes eventual progress.

You don't have to be a great, or even a good singer to do this! You just need to be able to imagine how you would eventually want the ebb and flow of the line to proceed, in terms of phrasing, dynamics, and rubato. I would recommend this heartily.

EDIT: If it is of any help, my conception of this excerpt 3 years ago - admittedly pizzicato but in the same range you are playing - can be found here.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I'm less qualified than others to comment on the bow aspects, so I'll leave that alone. Also, for some reason when I watch the video, the picture and audio are not in sync.

Your intonation sounds pretty good, so that's a great start. Musically, I would think about what you want each phrase to sound like and have a clear idea of that before introducing the mechanics of the bass playing, so that everything flows outward from the personal musical conception and not the other way around.

I am sometimes invited to visit classical bass studio classes and critique student performances. In these instances, I almost always begin with asking the student in question to sing the phrase or phrases that they are technically struggling with. Most of the time, the result of this is that the conception is not yet strong enough to provide a good roadmap to lead the technique, and the result of that is this sort of "tail walks the dog" approach that impedes eventual progress.

You don't have to be a great, or even a good singer to do this! You just need to be able to imagine how you would eventually want the ebb and flow of the line to proceed, in terms of phrasing, dynamics, and rubato. I would recommend this heartily.

EDIT: If it is of any help, my conception of this excerpt 3 years ago - admittedly pizzicato but in the same range you are playing - can be found here.

Thanks Chris. I agree, being able to sing a piece is key. I can sing this one in my sleep since I've been a fan of it before I even played double bass. And I come from the jazz world, so being able to "sing the head" is a requirement. Being a pizz player and mostly using the bow for intonation practice only until quite recently, I am more than overwhelmed by the size of the arco universe and all its nuances. Work in progress!

 

[AGCurry]

If you were to have a lesson with my teacher, he would tell you what he tells me regarding bowing arm:
Your whole arm, including shoulder, should provide the weight to the bow.
Keep the elbow away from the body as much as possible.
Play closer to the bridge, especially when left-hand position is higher on the fingerboard.

I struggle with these things constantly.

 

[chilensko]

If you were to have a lesson with my teacher, he would tell you what he tells me regarding bowing arm:
Your whole arm, including shoulder, should provide the weight to the bow.
Keep the elbow away from the body as much as possible.
Play closer to the bridge, especially when left-hand position is higher on the fingerboard.

I struggle with these things constantly.

I agree with playing closer to the bridge as you go to the higher register is fundamental and very important, is almost like each note has a sweet spot that sounds good..good luck!

 

[Alexis Duntov]

This video by Dennis Whittaker also offers some great insight and exercises related to long tones:

This is great. Can’t wait to try it. I believe him when he says it helps with mindfulness. It’s almost hypnotic.

 

[Neil Pye]

All the bow advice is spot on. I'm not a German bow player, so I won't pretend I know anything. My remarks will be musical. Bach is a cruel master at times, just getting the notes out can seem like a win! I think you might try to think a bit more about the "line", where it goes harmonically. It seems like you maybe lost track of it a couple of times? Having the line in your mind all the time helps the dynamics to happen naturally, and that might help you relax and enjoy playing, which might help with your bowing! Well done though, this stuff isn't easy.

 

[16fuss]

Hi Garagiste, i play at least the first repeating of this piece one octave higher. This is a lot easier due the use of flaggiolets. Of course easier with the bow too.
I played spirocores arco for a decade. I know how fighting the low notes feels!