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Fender - a new company model that would work

#21
I strongly suspect that the gazillion variations of Ps and Js that Fender makes cost them very little extra to produce, since it's all from the same templates - just mix-and-match existing elements. Musicians did it themselves for years, and Fender has figured out that they can make money by offering the instruments pre-tinkered-with. I don't think they're stupid over there, they know what's selling and what's not and drop a model that isn't.

As for the Dimension and the Cabronita, there are lots of people out there who are just bored with the same-ole-same-ole from Fender. Worse, nothing but P and J (and Strats and Teles, too, of course, which are WAY more important to Fender than Ps and Js) gives them a reputation as the Buick of the instrument world - your old uncle's clunky old car that was cool thirty years ago but who the heck wants one now? New models are a way to lure in those buyers who might not have bothered with a Fender otherwise, and shows the world that they still have ideas and are keeping up with the times.

I think a lot more of Fender's problems are basic market issues - it's a much more crowded marketplace than it was twenty or thirty years ago, and the old company with the biggest market share has the most to lose to newcomers carving out niches for themselves. Plus, the whole economy hit leaner times since 2007 or so and people won't buy instruments if they're struggling to buy groceries or medicine.
 
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#22
hrodbert - a couple of things in response:

1. Most of these "new" models are not new, but re-issues (Dimension excepted). That's like Chevy saying they have something new, and putting out fins on the back fenders.

2. It's a crowded marketplace - why make it more crowded?

3. Look at the boutique makers (Lull, Sadowsky, etc.). Most of them are making - you got it - better versions of Fender classics. What does that tell you? The P and J are the gold standard - not a boring same ole.
 
#24
I completely agree that Five Guys is way better than McD.

Pretty much disagree with all the stuff about Fender. I'm kind of digging all the options Fender is offering now, including the affordable made in China stuff.

If what Fender is doing doesn't increase sales, they'll stop on their own and figure out what business model maximizes sales.
 
#26
Is there any actual evidence that Fender is having problems? I just see endless speculation and debate on TB about Fender's supposed failings by people that arent really into Fenders anyway. Ive been using Fenders & Squiers for years and have never had any qc problems. I view their possible foray into direct sales as adapting to a changing market.
As for all the variations of their products that are being decried in this thread, also judging by what I see on TB, it seems like they're selling like hotcakes.
 
#27
I respect your point of view, I don't agree with it, but I respect it. However, I totally disagree with the title you gave the thread, I am guessing that this was to get more people to read the thread?

I am only speaking personally here, but I have a Squier Jaguar (which you took out of production), I have a Squier Fretless Jazz (which you didn't mention, but I am guessing that it also got cut), I would like to pick up a Jaguar Shortscale (which you also cut), I am interested in a a Squier VI (which would be cut), and finally, I also like the Coronado, which is on the maybe list.

Ok, so I am only a tiny fish in the sea, and these are all pretty cheap instruments, but I buy all of my instruments new, so this is a possibility of 5 instruments that I wouldn´t be able to purchase.

Another point is that you mention that all instruments should get a setup in the US before being shipped. While this might be logical for those in the US, why would this benefit the other 190 countries in the world where Fender can also sell instruments?

Again, I respect your point of view, but if Fender took notice of Talkbass, all they would need is to sell would be one model of P Bass, with a tort guard and flats.
 
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#28
The average annual revenue for a Five Guys is 1.2 million and it costs around $500,000 per store, minimum multiple locations to open a Five Guys.
The average annual revenue for a McDonald's is 2.6 million on a $250,000 start up cost.

I know which one I'd rather eat at, and also know which one I'd rather have my money in.
 
#30
jnewmark said:
Interesting thread, but are'nt you guys leaving out the other half of Fender's business, namely the amp side? Fender does not exist by P basses alone ! Their guitar amps especially must be a big part of their profits. Guitar players drool everytime Fender comes out with a new tube amp.
Click to expand...

And perhaps leaving the guitar side out also. I was in a UK Custom Shop distributor's shop today - a few nice Fender basses but no CS. But two or three walls of Fender guitars - mostly Strats. One of the walls was all CS.

My missus was with me and said of a brand new and very battered looking oly white Strat - is that really £3000 - what sort of loony would pay that much for such a beaten up guitar! She stood with her mouth open in disbelief when I told her some people prefer to buy them battered so they look like they've had a long hard life.

I suspect any problems Fender has are related to the fickle and transient nature of the musician market. I see you guys think the upper level models should be for pro or pro aiming musicians. Let me tell you I've seen people who can barely play buy CS instruments. Some are not even musicians at all and use them as ornaments - playing air guitar with them occasionally!!
 
#32
buldog5151bass said:
I hear about Fender’s new marketing ideas everywhere – most of which suck IMO (stupid signature models, thinking about getting rid of dealers). They have become bloated, and their catalog is far too full of useless BS. They used to be the world leader – too much competition for that today, but I think there are things they could do to become leaner, meaner, and increase sales AND reputation. Here is how I would revamp their catalog:

Two bass/base models – the P and the J. @#$%% the Dimension bass, the Coronado, etc.

Three main price points – Squier, Standard, and MIA. Obviously, that does not include custom shop, which is an animal of a different color.

For each Squier and Standard:

pick country of origin - don’t care – the intent is to standardize. Each bass receives basic set up in US before being shipped to stores.

They come in a choice of about 6 colors (black, white, sunburst – pick three more for standard).

Squier available 4 string, left and right. Standard available 4 and 5, left and right. Squiers have maple fingerboard, Standards maple and rosewood.

That’s it. Get rid of other options, including signature models, other pups etc. Make these better quality – should be able to do this while still bringing price down.

MIA:

Choice of about 9 colors – more available on special order for additional price.

Available 4 and 5, left and right

Rosewood and maple fingerboards, graphite necks.

Options include P/J pup setup, active.

Only these options should allow price to come down, while keeping AC up.

Beyond that, just custom shop.

Many people will complain that there are not enough options. But the sought after vintage models have lots fewer options than this. Smaller menus allow higher/more consistent quality, lower price, and make it possible for stores to carry them easier.

This is what Fender was when it was king. I would bet these models, even right now, are over 90% of their sales. Why all the bloat for minimal sales?
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My only beef with this is that THE BEST models in the current line-up will be lost. The Fender MIM Classic Series basses are AMAZING and by far superior to the MIM Standards. You also lose the Classic Vibe series basses, which are lightyears ahead of the Affinity. I don't know what it is but Fender does Classic style basses VERY well.

Personally, I'm also not a fan of the MIA Standard. Yes it looks like a classic Fender but it's not one. IMO, the American Special comes closer to nailing that classic Fender appeal.
 
#35
buldog5151bass said:
1. Most of these "new" models are not new, but re-issues (Dimension excepted). That's like Chevy saying they have something new, and putting out fins on the back fenders.
Click to expand...

Mustang, Camaro, Challenger - all the big 3 domestic automakers are doing pretty good with re-issues.
Beetle, 300-Z - and at least of couple of the foreign manufacturers as well.

If Chevy put fins on the back of a Cobalt, my Dad would buy the first one off the line.

Re-issues are popping up all over, retro clothing trends anyone?

Even musically, what is Airbourne except Australia's re-release of AC/DC?;)

There is nothing wrong with a re-issue when there is a market for it, and the market has repeatedly demonstrated that there is always room to re-issue a classic. Tough to say Fender is wrong if you don't have the sales numbers.
 
#36
If Fender cut everything but a few options on the old P and J the rest of the bass manufacturing world would throw a party. I can see cutting down on a few options here or there, but that model of doing only 1 thing and doing it well only works for smaller companies who are carving slices out of it's larger competitors. That's why places like Anheuser Busch throw out many new kinds of beer every year. Part of it is to see what might stick, but it's mostly to hold off all the microbrews. It's why car manufacturers make more than 2 car models. You can't compete as a large company otherwise. Same with Fender. I'd say they'd stand to lose a conservative estimate of 1/4 of their bass guitar new sales right out of the gate. Not only fans who don't see the model they want, but fans who don't see the options they want.

IMO get rid of the name Squier but the Squier Affinity altogether. Make Fender brand VM, CV, MP, MIM, MIJ, and MIA. And with the quality of the VM, CV, and MP lines I question whether the MIM line is even needed if you use the Fender brand name on the other lines. That's the only reason it's there, to make a Fender-branded bass at a lower price point. But that's just my limited view from the outside.
 
#37
buldog5151bass said:
awilkie84 - I know I am cutting good models, but do we really need THAT many different levels? I think three quality levels (plus custom shop) would be more than sufficient.
Click to expand...
IMO, you've cut TOO much. Personally, I believe that standardizing & consolidating the naming of different instruments would solve the problem entirely. Do it like this:

SOUTH ASIAN
Squier Affinity
Squier CV

MEXICAN
Fender Standard
Fender Classic

AMERICAN
Fender American
Fender Vintage
Fender Custom

All those off the wall "models" could fall into 1 category listed above & then just have a couple options for pickups, colours, etc inside each category. Artist models would fall into 1 of those categories, too, and just be an upcharge on the base of that model group. This also makes it really easy to keep the Jaguar, Jazz, Coronado, Mustang, Precision & Telecaster.
 
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#38
blue4 said:
If Fender cut everything but a few options on the old P and J the rest of the bass manufacturing world would throw a party. I can see cutting down on a few options here or there, but that model of doing only 1 thing and doing it well only works for smaller companies who are carving slices out of it's larger competitors. That's why places like Anheuser Busch throw out many new kinds of beer every year. Part of it is to see what might stick, but it's mostly to hold off all the microbrews. It's why car manufacturers make more than 2 car models. You can't compete as a large company otherwise. Same with Fender. I'd say they'd stand to lose a conservative estimate of 1/4 of their bass guitar new sales right out of the gate. Not only fans who don't see the model they want, but fans who don't see the options they want.

IMO get rid of the name Squier but the Squier Affinity altogether. Make Fender brand VM, CV, MP, MIM, MIJ, and MIA. And with the quality of the VM, CV, and MP lines I question whether the MIM line is even needed if you use the Fender brand name on the other lines. That's the only reason it's there, to make a Fender-branded bass at a lower price point. But that's just my limited view from the outside.
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The reason fender will NEVER do this is that a big part of upgrading from a Squier is acquiring that Fender label. So, they charge more for a Fender label. People buying Fender VMs or CVs are going to be less likely to upgrade to a Standard or American when they all have the same headstock label.
 
#40
awilkie84 said:
The reason fender will NEVER do this is that a big part of upgrading from a Squier is acquiring that Fender label. So, they charge more for a Fender label. People buying Fender VMs or CVs are going to be less likely to upgrade to a Standard or American when they all have the same headstock label.
Click to expand...

Could be true, but why isn't that the case for Ibanez and the others? Most people who play long enough to get to the point of upgrade are already familiar with the differences between the models, and already know that the true upgrade comes from the MIA. But you very well may be right.
 

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