Completely true
Fender did invent the modern electric bass, no doubt about it.
It's all about addin' our modest touch to let'em shine not just be the most famous run o'the mill out there
Cheers,
Wallace
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Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass V 5 string
- Thread starter meercatzbass
- Start date
Fender did invent the modern electric bass, no doubt about it.
It's all about addin' our modest touch to let'em shine not just be the most famous run o'the mill out there
Cheers,
Wallace
Of course it matters. An $1800 bass should not need to be upgraded just to be usable.
Very interesting. What's the difference in tone comparing the stock, Pope and Sadowsky preamps ? Could you also help me out by describing the differences between the n3's and what you put in ?
Hey man..just getting back on.. The N3s are very good pickups.. If I'm putting in a screaming hot preamp like a John East the N3s sound great.. The difference is how "hot" they are. I put in quarter pounds. (QPs) they have bigger poles and are hotter.. They're passive pickups in the most wonderful way.. They're common but they match up with the Sadowsky onboard preamp magically!
It does for me.. If you actually felt the difference you'd change that thought. And warning: elitist speech coming..not intentional-just how it's always taken.. All basses should be tweaked out (whatever that means to you) before playing.. Please don't play "off the rack" if you can help it.. Fender basses are not ready to be played to my specs off the rack. I do this for a living.. Michael Rhodes and I are tight friends and its like tennis racquets.. You can't buy Roger Federer's raquetts off the rack at Rob's Sporting Goids.. Even if they have the brand and model..that's not what the Fed is actually playing with.. There's been a lot of weight balancing and string poundage changing..grip and small changes that matter to his game.. So the short reply after the long one is: yeah...yes I do have to make these changes to an $1800 bass which actually is at the bottom price range.. I can take an $1800 Am/De J and have it completely reworked and it turns into a bass that plays, reacts and sounds like a $3500 bass.. Sorry, I do not play off the rack..
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You don't actually think Adam Clayton's Fender's were just picked up and played right then? His tech does the same thing I pay this shop to do. The thing is these guys have MIMs and Squires that they've reworked head to toe and they're scary awesome..
A famous bass player in Nashville....we must know each other.....
There is a difference between tweaking a bass to your preferences and modifying a bass to fix issues. Certainly you can see that. Changing an output Jack isn't a personal preference.
Again, there is a dramatic difference between a personal setup and string change, and having to change pickups, preamps, and the freaking output jack in order to make a bass usable.
Do I think Adam Clayton play the Custom Shop bass with his name on it just the way it came? Of course not....I'm sure his tech sets it to his liking. Do I think he changes the pickup, preamp, and wiring? You're kinda missing the point of a Signature bass......
Right on. I just picked up a Sadowsky clone because I was dying to hear the difference between the two. I've gone back and forth at a couple rehearsals and there's things I like about both. The note definition with the Sadowsky setup is really cool but the warmth from the Fender American Deluxe V gets the nod from the band. I wonder how similar your SD's are to stock Lakland singles because that's how I felt about my dj4. Hot but amazingly perfect.
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Maybe..mine aren't signature basses.. I kinda get the feeling you are just in the mood for an argument.. I've got 38 years on this instrument..I'm a session guy and road guy (divorced so..yahoo) And this is just my experience..and it's proven to be right for me. Can you play a bass off the rack? ..yes! Do I want to? ..no! I lost over a dozen guitars and basses in the flood here and I have gone about the process of trying to replace some of the "road" basses.. I lost 5 of my old basses.. I didn't hurt as much over my divorce as I did losing those. So, vack to my point.. I cannot do a session or set up my gear to head out and turn it over to road management to be packed with any bass that I haven't made comfortable for me. I am a sustain freak and if you want to find some example of why I feel this way (although I don't know anybody who plays arenas with stuff they just got at GC) it would be here.. The stock nut HAS to go for it to respond the way I like it.. And for a live bass the stock pre is horrible (no punch..at all) in these situations. I think your point is "you don't have to do this custom work to play the bass.. Yeah, I agree.. I'm saying it's not worth playing until it's customed out and dialed in.. You may feel different.. However, I am 48, wake up every morning and thank God for the position I'm in.. I play for a country artist that has his share of CMAs and ACMs.. My first cousin is a major writer up here..Neil Thrasher. I'm not going to tell names as far as my boss goes.. Doesn't matter-but I tell you that to say this.. New Fender basses have sub-par nuts and electronics..at least for how I use them. My live basses have to be so aggressive because of how lost the low frequencies can get on huge stages.. We do a mix of in-ear and monitors mounted under the stage pointed up and angled to push sound and air up thru a grated vent.. No way a stock J wouldn't drive me nuts with dead frequency areas..not even close to enough punch for this application.. Thing is, once you fall in love with this aggressive stuff..you'll want it everywhere..arenas, clubs, Holiday Inn Lounges..weddings etc.. I'm not telling you to do it.. I'm saying I do it because I've found any other way doesn't feel right. I have to have the crazy gain.. If that's just me then so be it..(it's not, you all should meet Amos Heller 'Taylor Swift'..crazy gain freak). I'm doing something right.. this'll freak some out-my biggest worry being a part of this organization and keeping my gig has nothing to do with guitars or even music....and check this out...it's weight gain! And NO I am not joking. You get fat on the wrong tour and you're toast..
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Nothing wrong with winding up with a couple of basses you like.. You know I don't know about the pickup similarities.. I know Lakland bass are beautiful instruments. Looks and tone..feel. I got to know John Est products from a friend who plays Lakland.. John East comes stock in some Laklands.. They're like the cool new guys..but not so new anymore.. I've threatened to buy a U.S. Darryl Jones a few times. Laklands feel good around your neck..balanced. Nice..high (as in price-not..well #cough#) The skyline stuff is incredible..and not just for what it is..(I hate that saying) Korean or not-great playing bass man.. And here's a good spot to make a point.. - Now, I don't have a Lakland..yet..but I have G&Ls. These guitars just like Laklands need nothing done to them.. If Fender put forward the same pride and detail I would be much happier.. I'm a Fender guy so..my cross
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There are a lot of bass men in Nashville.. A lot of working bass guys. I'm not going to give my name of course but Micheal Rhodes and I hang.. I'm at Vince and Amy's a lot in his studio..I say recording but eating is more accurate..
I hear what your saying and I guess agree pretty much.. But I don't know what you're saying about the jack.. I pull the nut, pickups and drop a new on board in..to all "new" Fenders. It's what I do.. And you know that standard.. You're a Nashville guy so you know how prevalent the Sadowsky is here.. I refuse to drop that on one gtr.. I don't know why, I've put that much in some of my old stuff. The Sadowsky brothers are brilliant..anyway, that's what I do..only to my road basses.. I have to have x amount of gain or I disappear everywhere-in-ears..monitors. As you know it's a phase thing on huge stages..hate them. You have to get what I'm talking about.. You just let the cat out of the bag.. Your up here with me bumpin the bottom for living.. It's a small community man. Lots of players..few who have gigs like this. Who is this.. Just post like something people might recognize-a sayin or story..see if I can guess who. I won't blurt out a name.. Give me hint.. If you're working label artists, unioned up and "well known"..then brother we know each other!
I do want to be clear.. Regardless of the tweaking.. If I didn't love this bass I wouldn't play it. I don't have a crap load of basses but I have what makes sense to have to handle sessions and producer's requests. Fenders aren't perfect (what bass is) but Js and Ps were their own thing and the first bass tone worth recording.. I have a few others but Fender has never let me down. Don't mean to come off like I have a problem with them.. I don't I play them almost exclusively.
What if my preference is a graphite nut? And likewise with onboard pres..? Pickups are certainly a personal preference.. They way I see it..the entire range on changes are just that...personal preference changes. What's your problem with this. This is common.. I'm confused.. Also, I'm posting this for people who should know that Fender Js can play like a boutique.. That's my preference.. I like an even, long sustain, very precision feel..not the model Precision but precision meaning comprehensive quality. The Fender Am/de at retail does fall short of what I want it to do.. But I can make it play very close to Sandbergs and better by far that these Xotics.. I can put it in the ball park of these boutiques...for thousands less..and we all would rather have a Fender anyway..and if that Fender is a killer, well..it makes me feel special inside.
I'm requoting the original replies in our exchange in hopes you glean my oringial point. My point is this: you shouldn't HAVE to change out the components in a $1800 bass just to make it usable. That's why my Deluxe went back to Sweetwater.....it was simply too noisy for studio use, and almost too noisy to even be used on stage. In order to use it for what I needed, I was going to have to shield, ground, and replace pickups and preamp. By the time I would have done that, I would have so much money in the bass that I could have easily purchased a Sadowsky Metro.......which comes from the Sadowsky shop quiet and ready to record.
To me you shouldn't have to upgrade an $1800 bass to fix problems.....
I didn't know Roger Sadowsky had a brother running the business with him.......
It's interesting reading the discussion between John Bottom and Guy N. Cognito. Having spent a lot of time around Nashville in the middle 1990s, I know you have to be beyond good to work there, and the best gigs go to truly gifted players. From what I read, one guy does not want to be bothered with modding a bass (that is my approach,) and one guys enjoys taking a good bass and tweeking it. If the results are cool, I see nothing wrong with either way.
I have no issues with modding basses......my only issue is having to mod an expensive bass simply to make it usable. To make the mods that John is inferring would add approximately $600 to the cost....if not more for professional shielding and grounding. That puts a Fender in the price realm of a Sadowsky Metro.
It's unfortunate that Fender doesn't see it necessary to do proper shielding work on their current basses. My 1996 deluxe is just as quiet as my Spectors, Sadowskys and Warwicks. That bass came from the factory with proper shielding paint and a cavity ground.....I'm guessing that was John Suhr's influence. I've recorded with that bass dozens of times. Engineers love it because it's so quiet.
It's unfortunate that Fender doesn't see it necessary to do proper shielding work on their current basses. My 1996 deluxe is just as quiet as my Spectors, Sadowskys and Warwicks. That bass came from the factory with proper shielding paint and a cavity ground.....I'm guessing that was John Suhr's influence. I've recorded with that bass dozens of times. Engineers love it because it's so quiet.
Yeah.. I don't see the real argument.. This is how I like my live basses. I do not do this to say a 61 or 64 or even a bass I'm not going to take out.. Maybe it's better to explain (thought I did) I personally have to have these particular basses modded to this extent.. If I don't the monitor guys can't get enough gain to me. -well, its a mixture of phase craziness, but it makes 100% better situation for everyone.. And BTW, send this question to any live player working big venues.. You'll get the same answer.. It's needed for my use and application.. It's a little annoying to have to keep explaining this.. And I'm done right here.. I've expressed the reasoning and I think most people get it.. The reason I do it new basses is because I'm sponsored by Fender.. I get these basses.. I don't know what the reason for continuing the argument.. Is there something you don't understand about what I'm saying other than... "you don't have to change a "good" bass for it to be playable" which I would hope that most people on here would know.. No you don't.. Most people don't play for 20,000 people and are on a huge "empty" stage.. It's murder on the bass player.. I disappear. It's a known issue and I have guys who just deal with that on this tour.. So I'm not understanding the need to continue to measure our "you know whats!" and I don't consider that particular bass a very expensive bass.. $5000 Sadowskys are expensive not these.. At least the way look at it..
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The bass at its core is a fine bass.. I would encourage others to read this exchange.. I hear you but it feels like I'm arguing with a young person.. You shouldn't have to do a lot of things.. But with the U.S. Fender, for me to use..(again for ME to use) I HAVE to make these changes. You can take yours back and get an Ibanez or Warwick or whatever you're into.. I'll take my modded Fender. I've only got 38 years logged in. Ok that's a bit rude.. But you constant pushing of your point is annoying.. Your point is taken.. Now, I have to mod. If you don't see the need and you want something else great! First..and foremost, I CAN'T! I'm sponsered by Fender.. However, I would do this regardless..because I love how they turn out.. Can we be done here? Not to mention you made my point in your post.. But Fender is still the best playing bass in that range.. And when modded..awesome.. Please just get it.. news flash all basses have some problems.. And no two basses are the same so making changes is a normal function of a bass player or his tech. The more we go back and forth the more I want to know who in Nashville are you hooked up with.. Nashville is about 90% BS and 1% actual label business.. I'm an equal partner with Neil Thrasher and Wendell Mobely.. You?
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42 with 30 years playing bass. But feel free to dismiss it as youthful ignorance.....
