I just purchased a new (demo) Fender American Player Mustang Bass from a music store on Reverb.com. It was hard to believe that it was a demo---it still had the plastic on the pick guard, pickups, fender sticker, etc... The store did a great job of doing a set-up and included a new set of flat wounds that I requested. SO...no complaints. HOWEVER--the output of the bass is considerably less than any of my other passive basses. Also, when solo-ing the "P" pickup on the Mustang bass, I get noise (60 cycle, etc.) that would be typical of a single coil pickup. The "P" pickup should be as quiet as any of my other P basses but it is not. When combining the P and J pickup on the Mustang bass, it is dead quiet as expected. Is there a problem with this bass/pickups? The store does not respond today (Saturday) and I sent him a message on REVERB that I expect you will see on Monday. What do you think? Anyone out there have any experience with a Mustang bass (American Performer has the smaller oval P split pickups...NOT the MIM version that has traditional P pickup)?
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Fender American Player Mustang Bass pickup question
- Thread starter road-cat1
- Start date
Hopefully some of the experts can confirm what I’m about to say....
My understanding is the original Mustang pickups are not RWRP; they achieve hum cancelling by being wired out of phase. Not a problem with a single pickup- the E/A strings are out of phase with D/G strings so no phase cancellation. However if you add a second pickup then something will be out of phase between half of the Mustang pickup and the J pickup.
Based on your observation it seems that on the 2 pickup Mustang they did not wire the Mustang pu out of phase, and instead have the J RWRP with the Mustang pickup.
I suspect most of us would prefer having the mustang pu wired like a P pickup with the two halves RWRP. Then you would get hum from the J but could solo the Mustang pu without hum.
I may be wrong about all this, appreciate if someone can confirm. If correct, makes ya wonder why they felt the need to include that J pu in the first place. I know, I’m not the first one to ask that...
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I think I have a solution to this problem. I have an American Player Mustang (2018 serial no.) and a Vintera 60's Mustang (2019 serial no.) - both with the small, two piece Mustang pickups in the P position. Both had annoying single coil hum and buzz. The two parts of the pickup on both basses were not RWRP as one would expect. Both coils on each bass were wound in the same direction and the magnets in both were oriented North pole up (facing the strings) - so wired together in series they essentially formed a hum sensitive single coil pickup. This begs the question - were the original Mustang bass pickups RWRP? One would expect they were hum cancelling just like P pickups. If not, why not? I have no idea if Fender have rectified this issue since my basses were manufactured.
I spent last Friday night reversing the polarity of the magnets in one half of the pickup on each bass and reversing the connections on that coil. It worked perfectly - both basses are now entirely hum/buzz free in the 'P' position and don't sound any different. No shielding of the cavities required. The J pickup on the American Player of course is still hum-prone.
The polarity of the magnets can be reversed quite easily using a vice with some neodymium magnets on the jaws of the vice. See near the bottom of this page for the basic technique:
Single-coil Pickup Kits | stewmac.com
This is about charging new magnets but it can just as easily be used to reverse the polarity of alnico magnets.
I think you can ignore the advice there about aiming for a final recharged strength of 20 - 25 gauss. As you'll see below, the magnets, at least in bass pickups I've measured, are considerably stronger.
One of the two pickups needs to be removed from the pickguard and to have the hookup wires at each end desoldered and removed so you can put it through the magnetic polarity reversal process and also to reverse the wiring.
You'll need a compass or similar to set up your neodymium magnets in the correct orientation. I used a magnetic field strength meter (Extech MF100) to check both the polarity and strength of the magnets before and after the reversal process. The poles of the magnets on the unmodified pickups had a field strength of 100 - 120 milliTeslas (1000 - 1200 gauss) measured in contact with the centre of the exposed polepiece faces. For comparison, J pickup polepieces have about the same magnetic strength and a sampling of P pickups seems to yield a strength of about 80 milliTeslas. I used two neodymium disk magnets on each side of the vice and positioned the faces of the magnets 30 mm apart. The magnetic poles on the Mustang pickup are 25 mm long. The pickup goes into the gap with its north poles facing the north pole facing neodymium magnet(s) and is then moved side to side through the gap trying not to make contact between the pickup and neodymium magnets. I protected the pickups in the magnet reversal process by wrapping them in low tac masking tape. It took only about 6 passes through the neodymium magnets to reverse the polarity and to achieve the required magnetic strength. Provided you can determine the polarity of the neodymium magnets with a compass and orient them correctly, you can probably get away without using a field strength meter. You might be able to roughly assess the strength of the repolarised pickup magnets by comparing the force of attraction of a screwdriver (unmagnetised please!) to the polepiece magnets in the unmodified pickup. I took the plastic covers off both pickups to unsolder the pickup wires and this comparison should be done with uncovered, exposed polepieces.
I reversed the wiring on the pickup simply by turning the pickup 180 degrees (record its original orientation before you remove it from the pickguard!) and soldering back the hookup wires to their original locations (though with the pickup now reversed). You have to be very careful you don't disturb the very fine pickup wire around where it enters the soldering eyelet when soldering and handling the pickup. You could potentially avoid eyelet desoldering and soldering mishaps by cutting the hookup wires near the pickup and then splicing the connections back.
For the neodymium magnets, I used some freshly purchased 25 mm diameter, 5 mm thick magnets obtained from a local electronics hobbyist store here in Australia (Jaycar Cat No. LM1618). Their field strength measured in in contact with the centre of the magnet's face is about 300 milliTeslas.
Naturally, I can take no responsibility for any mishaps others might have in attempting to replicate this procedure. Treat the fine pickup wire with the respect it demands! Of course, your favourite guitar repairer or luthier might be prepared to tackle this for you if delicate soldering and the risk of damage to the pickup wire is not to your liking.
I spent last Friday night reversing the polarity of the magnets in one half of the pickup on each bass and reversing the connections on that coil. It worked perfectly - both basses are now entirely hum/buzz free in the 'P' position and don't sound any different. No shielding of the cavities required. The J pickup on the American Player of course is still hum-prone.
The polarity of the magnets can be reversed quite easily using a vice with some neodymium magnets on the jaws of the vice. See near the bottom of this page for the basic technique:
Single-coil Pickup Kits | stewmac.com
This is about charging new magnets but it can just as easily be used to reverse the polarity of alnico magnets.
I think you can ignore the advice there about aiming for a final recharged strength of 20 - 25 gauss. As you'll see below, the magnets, at least in bass pickups I've measured, are considerably stronger.
One of the two pickups needs to be removed from the pickguard and to have the hookup wires at each end desoldered and removed so you can put it through the magnetic polarity reversal process and also to reverse the wiring.
You'll need a compass or similar to set up your neodymium magnets in the correct orientation. I used a magnetic field strength meter (Extech MF100) to check both the polarity and strength of the magnets before and after the reversal process. The poles of the magnets on the unmodified pickups had a field strength of 100 - 120 milliTeslas (1000 - 1200 gauss) measured in contact with the centre of the exposed polepiece faces. For comparison, J pickup polepieces have about the same magnetic strength and a sampling of P pickups seems to yield a strength of about 80 milliTeslas. I used two neodymium disk magnets on each side of the vice and positioned the faces of the magnets 30 mm apart. The magnetic poles on the Mustang pickup are 25 mm long. The pickup goes into the gap with its north poles facing the north pole facing neodymium magnet(s) and is then moved side to side through the gap trying not to make contact between the pickup and neodymium magnets. I protected the pickups in the magnet reversal process by wrapping them in low tac masking tape. It took only about 6 passes through the neodymium magnets to reverse the polarity and to achieve the required magnetic strength. Provided you can determine the polarity of the neodymium magnets with a compass and orient them correctly, you can probably get away without using a field strength meter. You might be able to roughly assess the strength of the repolarised pickup magnets by comparing the force of attraction of a screwdriver (unmagnetised please!) to the polepiece magnets in the unmodified pickup. I took the plastic covers off both pickups to unsolder the pickup wires and this comparison should be done with uncovered, exposed polepieces.
I reversed the wiring on the pickup simply by turning the pickup 180 degrees (record its original orientation before you remove it from the pickguard!) and soldering back the hookup wires to their original locations (though with the pickup now reversed). You have to be very careful you don't disturb the very fine pickup wire around where it enters the soldering eyelet when soldering and handling the pickup. You could potentially avoid eyelet desoldering and soldering mishaps by cutting the hookup wires near the pickup and then splicing the connections back.
For the neodymium magnets, I used some freshly purchased 25 mm diameter, 5 mm thick magnets obtained from a local electronics hobbyist store here in Australia (Jaycar Cat No. LM1618). Their field strength measured in in contact with the centre of the magnet's face is about 300 milliTeslas.
Naturally, I can take no responsibility for any mishaps others might have in attempting to replicate this procedure. Treat the fine pickup wire with the respect it demands! Of course, your favourite guitar repairer or luthier might be prepared to tackle this for you if delicate soldering and the risk of damage to the pickup wire is not to your liking.
Some info - read this post and the follow-ups:
Picked up a jmj and wondering about the AweSome tone control mod
Picked up a jmj and wondering about the AweSome tone control mod
Thanks very much Ken. The Mustang pickup is not as straightforward as I thought! However, I'm pleased that my mod has completely eliminated hum from the Mustang pickup.
On the American Performer, I do notice that the hum of the J pickup is only reduced when the Mustang pickup pot is at full volume. Before the mod, because the Mustang pickup was behaving as one large single coil with 'north up' magnets, the hum from the 'south up' J pickup could be eliminated throughout the full range by balancing it with the Mustang pot at a similar setting just like on a Jazz bass.
On the American Performer, I do notice that the hum of the J pickup is only reduced when the Mustang pickup pot is at full volume. Before the mod, because the Mustang pickup was behaving as one large single coil with 'north up' magnets, the hum from the 'south up' J pickup could be eliminated throughout the full range by balancing it with the Mustang pot at a similar setting just like on a Jazz bass.
Hey KenB, I recently got my American Performer Mustang Bass off Reverb and then found out about the nasty buzz issue on the Mustang PU.
You mentioned in the other thread that the Mustang PU needed to be wired in-phase in order to avoid weirdness with the J bass pickup in the bridge. Well, I ordered a custom shop Seymour Duncan Mustang Pickup specced to be like the JMJ mustang and a non-custom shop Seymour Duncan humbucking J-bass bridge pick-up.
Will this work to solve my issues or will I still have weird phasing or hum issues?
Thanks for any and all help. I just want to be able to record/play bass without all the buzzing
You mentioned in the other thread that the Mustang PU needed to be wired in-phase in order to avoid weirdness with the J bass pickup in the bridge. Well, I ordered a custom shop Seymour Duncan Mustang Pickup specced to be like the JMJ mustang and a non-custom shop Seymour Duncan humbucking J-bass bridge pick-up.
Will this work to solve my issues or will I still have weird phasing or hum issues?
Thanks for any and all help. I just want to be able to record/play bass without all the buzzing
The buzz you're hearing from the Mustang pickup in your American Performer is happening because Fender took the "easy way out". Rather than designing a new split Mustang pickup that is both hum-cancelling AND phase-correct (like a P pickup, or the Mustang pickups in the old Japanese Mustang reissues), they simply took a regular Mustang pickup and hooked it up with one coil wired "backwards", making it phase correct, but susceptible to hum and buzz like any normal single coil pickup.
The JMJ pickup won't work with a J pickup unless you hook it up the same way as the one already in your bass.
What I would do is contact Seymour Duncan, and ask them for advice. I'm sure they would be willing and able to make a custom JMJ-spec pickup with the magnets in one half reversed, to make it hum-cancelling AND compatible with their J pickup.
Good luck!
The JMJ pickup won't work with a J pickup unless you hook it up the same way as the one already in your bass.
What I would do is contact Seymour Duncan, and ask them for advice. I'm sure they would be willing and able to make a custom JMJ-spec pickup with the magnets in one half reversed, to make it hum-cancelling AND compatible with their J pickup.
Good luck!
It boggles my mind how Fender took the cheap way out when designing their most expensive Mustang Bass! Lots of folks are pissed about the hum and buzz from the M pickup.
I mean, how much would it have cost them to make a Mustang pickup with the magnets reversed in one of the coils?!?
I mean, how much would it have cost them to make a Mustang pickup with the magnets reversed in one of the coils?!?
You guys seem to know what you're talking about. I just got an American Performer on the heels of a JJ (which I will probably be sending back). I love the neck and general quality of the AP, but there is definitely noise when I use the P pickup solo'd. Actually even if I dial in some of the J pickup, it has to be pretty much all the way up to cancel the noise...and that is not the tone I want most of the time.
So I'm trying to understand, is hum canceling in this bass only possible when both pickups are on full?
Its particularly noticeable when I'm in a room with computers and lights...as in my studio.
Is there no way around this?
From reading your posts above, I take it that they did not put the two P coils out of phase in the AP, because if they did, one of the coils would be out of phase with the J pickup...and then any sounds coming from the strings over that coil would cancel out not only the buzz, but the notes too, mostly.
How are full size P+J basses wired?
I love the fit and finish of this AP, but honestly this is a big dissapointment in terms of the buzz.
The JJ is dead quiet in the same room.
So I'm trying to understand, is hum canceling in this bass only possible when both pickups are on full?
Its particularly noticeable when I'm in a room with computers and lights...as in my studio.
Is there no way around this?
From reading your posts above, I take it that they did not put the two P coils out of phase in the AP, because if they did, one of the coils would be out of phase with the J pickup...and then any sounds coming from the strings over that coil would cancel out not only the buzz, but the notes too, mostly.
How are full size P+J basses wired?
I love the fit and finish of this AP, but honestly this is a big dissapointment in terms of the buzz.
The JJ is dead quiet in the same room.
Hi Al,
did you end up trying the Custom Seymour Duncan pickup? was it quieter? I have a Vintera Mustang which I really love playing but I feel the pickup could be a little better, so I'm considering changing it for a Seymour Duncan.
L.
