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Fender Bassman 100T Chapter 3

#181
Forgot to mention that a 5751 has lower gain than a 12AX7. Its about 75% of the output power of the AX7 and AX7A. The 100t has enough going for it in terms of volume that I doubt that this would be a problem if you ran one in the V1 as well. You would still get plenty of volume out of the amp, but it would sound a lot more TUBEY at lower volumes and you wouldn't need to inject so much distortion into the sound on the active side if used in the V2.

The vintage channel would probably be where you would notice the change right away.

One of the cleanest AX7 brands that I have played with are made by Raytheon. Not as talked about as other more famous tube brands, but their 12AX7a from the 60s are great for Hi-FI applications. Comparable to some of the 50s/60s vintage RCA and their 6681 tubes but a lot cheaper!
 
#182
GG7 said:
Forgot to mention that a 5751 has lower gain than a 12AX7. Its about 75% of the output power of the AX7 and AX7A. The 100t has enough going for it in terms of volume that I doubt that this would be a problem if you ran one in the V1 as well. You would still get plenty of volume out of the amp, but it would sound a lot more TUBEY at lower volumes and you wouldn't need to inject so much distortion into the sound on the active side if used in the V2.

The vintage channel would probably be where you would notice the change right away.

One of the cleanest AX7 brands that I have played with are made by Raytheon. Not as talked about as other more famous tube brands, but their 12AX7a from the 60s are great for Hi-FI applications. Comparable to some of the 50s/60s vintage RCA and their 6681 tubes but a lot cheaper!
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That's kind of interesting as one thing that bugs me about the 100T in a small way is how much the volume comes up when you have overdrive dialed in and then you increase the blend. If you're going to be dialing in more than 5 or 6 on overdrive, and say 5 to 6 on blend, then you've got to bring down the channel volume a couple notches to get it back down to where its clean volume matched the vintage channel. Just 25% less output on your tube may not be low enough to completely compensate, but it'd be closer.
What do you think about the idea of not overdriving V2 and choosing an alternate clean(er) tube for it? I guess if V1 is fast and clean enough it shouldn't turn to mud. Do you think?
 
#183
Greetings from the North,

I originally posted this link in a thread in the Basses section. It's a demo of Fender's new American Deluxe Dimension 2 pickup IV & V string model basses. But.....for the amp they use a new Fender Bassman 100T going thru a vintage early 70's Bassman 412 cab and it sounds great. Give it a listen Invalid Link Removed

Rezdog
 
#184
Freight Train said:
That's kind of interesting as one thing that bugs me about the 100T in a small way is how much the volume comes up when you have overdrive dialed in and then you increase the blend. If you're going to be dialing in more than 5 or 6 on overdrive, and say 5 to 6 on blend, then you've got to bring down the channel volume a couple notches to get it back down to where its clean volume matched the vintage channel. Just 25% less output on your tube may not be low enough to completely compensate, but it'd be closer.
What do you think about the idea of not overdriving V2 and choosing an alternate clean(er) tube for it? I guess if V1 is fast and clean enough it shouldn't turn to mud. Do you think?
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It would definitely be worth playing around with. I do know that a lot of guitarists swear by the 5751 approach since they can get their amp into distortion a lot faster, and depending on the brand you choose to go with, that distortion can be a lot warmer and more pleasing than trying to goose a cleaner AX7 into the same type of behavior.

Of course the best way to find out is to give it a try and see. I'm not sure when I will have time to do another round of tube rolling experiments with my amp, but if you or anyone else wants to pick up a few of these various tubes from me and try your hand at your own tube rolling, just PM me!

I have always prided myself on only buying new or lightly used tubes from reliable sources, and then, only the best brands for the type of tube in question.

Then I run them all through the 3444 to make sure they are safe, and then sort them based on performance and triode balance etc. Most tube sellers I see out there, just see if the tube is good, and that is as far as they go. lol!

I think I am somewhat unique as a tube collector in that I not only have all the best testing gear and 30+ years of tube buying/testing experience, I also use them for music applications, particularly bass and guitar amps! :)

It definitely makes a difference in what brands, models testing values I would recommend to someone. For example... Sometimes a lower testing/weak preamp tube can be just the ticket to give someone a specific type of tubey performance. 12AX7s tend to last for a VERY long time, so even low testing specimens still have value in a guitar or bass amp environment. The other advantage is that as a rule, you can get low or weak testing used tubes for a lot cheaper. I do have some of those too. I don't set out to buy them that way, but I do buy large tube lots sometimes, and you will often find some of these used/weak tubes in the box. And if they test good with no shorts and other issues, I drop them in my low testing box for guitar amp applications. These would not be good for a HI-FI amp, but with guitar and bass amps, there are no rules! ;)
 
#185
I have a 90's Ampeg V-4(BH). I used a 1x 15" SVT15E cab, it was not loud enough. With a Mesa Diesel 2x15" it is loud enough but already quite distorted. How does a Fender Bassman 100T with either a 6x10" or two 1x15" Fender cabs compare to that setup? Our drummer is loud. I use Fender US Dlx Jazz basses, Hamer Chaparral with EMG's and an old Gibson RD Artist, those are all active basses. I just want to know if the 100T is all I need (I have the feeling a SB300 might be overkill for my needs)
 
#186
The 100T seems to have way more clean headroom than the old Bassmans, but I have not played a V4B. I read elsewhere that it goes louder, but that is only hearsay. I would be unsure about a single 115, but certainly with two 115s it should do the job for most gigs. My 100T with the Fender neo 610 has got penty of grunt and punch - whether or not it will be enough for you I cannot say. I like the SB300 though, simply because it does have that extra clean headroom.
 
#187
What Tim said, but it is really hard to be able to answer a question like that. LOUD is a very subjective term, and what one person might consider LOUD may not be enough for someone else in a different setting.

That said...

To Hamerguy... Do you guys not get routed out to the FOH? (Front of House) I am not gigging with mine, but I can't imagine this rig with the 410 Neo cab I am running with it not being loud enough for any stage volume situation.
 
#188
The V4BH (not the original V4 or V4B) is renowned for being a fairly wimpy 100 watts. Based on reputation and gig reports I would be very surprised if the 100t didn't smoke it.

Any way you can try one? Musicians Friend and Sweetwater both offer good trial periods.

Another option is the new V4B reissue, which from all reports is much louder than the V4BH.

Good luck,
Liam
 
#190
edwinhurwitz said:
Interesting. I use 5751s to get less distortion. With less gain, it seems like it's less likely to overdrive subsequent stages. They certainly sound great in my Alembic F2B and old Fender amps.
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What brand are you using?

Stevie Ray used the GE JG-5751 Green Label which are the only ones I have ever used as well. They definitely give you a faster breakup point on my VOX AC15 and my Fender Blues Jr. when I have run them in both of these amps.

I tend to run Mullard Blackburns 12AX7s in all my amps cause they can get you pretty much any kind of tonal personality you could want, but damned are they expensive nowadays! My second choice for a great all around AX7 is the Amperex Bugle Boy. The ones with the little cartoon character on the glass have gotten insane, but there are plenty of rebranded versions of these tubes out there for much cheaper. Identical tube in every way except for the little guy on the side. That is one hell of an expensive cartoon! lol! ;)

I bought the dozen Mullards I have about 25 years ago when all of these tubes were still affordable for us lowly musician types. ;)
 
#191
GG7 said:
What brand are you using?
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I'm not sure. I got them from Fat Willie at NBS Electronics about 15 years ago, or maybe more. I think they were a JAN version of some sort. They were about $5 apiece back then. I'm still running the quartet of Philips 7581As in my McIntosh MC30s that I got back then and they sound phenomenal.

God, I love tubes! :hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper:
 
#192
GG7 said:
You're welcome! I don't really listen to that style of music much these days, but I was a huge Black Sabbath fan when I was a kid, and in the 80s I really enjoyed Metallica! So, I can appreciate what you guys are doing with your material, and I liked what I heard on that track. :bassist:

Regarding the tube stuff...

Thought you guys would appreciate seeing what a serious NOS tube collector uses to test his amp tubes before he installs them in an amp, or sells them to other musicians or Hi-fi buffs.

Speaking of which... I have decided to sell off a portion of my large tube collection later this year on eBay. While I am not ready to start doing that yet, I would consider a few limited sales to folks here on the TB forums ahead of my official eBay store offering. So anyone interested should PM me and I can give you an idea of what kind of $$ we are talking about. These will of course be more expensive than a full 100t set composed of new Russian tubes, which I have seen using Winged "C" power tubes and reissue Mullards going for around $180.00 I can actually get close to that price using a quad of Winged "C" 6L6s but with vintage GE, Sylvania, Jan Philips or Raytheon 12AX7s and either a Sylvania or GE AT7.

A full NOS set will be more than that of course.

What I would call my KILLER set would consist of FOUR GE 6L6 GC power tubes, 50s or 60s vintage Amperex, Mullard or RCA 12AX7s, and an RCA 12AT7. All performance matched and with balanced triodes on all the preamp tubes.

Anything I sell will be performance matched and double tested in my Triplett 3444 and TV-7. One major advantage of buying any set from me in addition to me owning the same amp and having tested most of these brands in this amp for tonal characteristics is that I will be setting you up with a closely balanced AT7 tube, which is very important. People always talk about matching the T1 and T2 of a 12AX7 for V1 and V2, but in reality, the AT7 in the Phase Inverter position is really the one that benefits from balanced triodes the most! :)

If you do PM me, be sure to let me know what kind of music you play, what kind of basses you use with your amp, and what kind of playing environment your amp is used in most of the time. Some of these vintage tubes are more finicky than others about operating temps etc. so all this info would help me steer you towards the best brand combo for what you are looking to do with your 100t! :)
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I for one am a complete newbie to tube amps. I am awaiting the arrival of my 100t and hope to avail myself of your offer to purchase matched tubes, both power stage and preamp stage. I thank you for this opportunity very much. This is very kind of you. Learning about this (e.g. testing units, individual characteristics of tubes etc. is so very cool. Thank you for indulging me in my passion while I fulfill my adult/parental responsibilities. I am grateful. I will p.m. you when the head arrives.

Respectfully and thankfully,


( Geez, I sounded so wooden in the above response...) I'm just so excited to learn and appreciate tubes and associated knowledge,. I feel like a wine taster who is preparing to learn the ropes. So cool.... Marc
 
#194
Tim1 said:
I must be the odd man out here, I put in Winged Cs and JJ pres but have gone back to the original Groove Tubes recently and darned if I don't prefer them!:hmm::confused:
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Those are not that much different than the GTs the amp came with, and although the Winged "C"s were one of the best sounding Russian 6L6 tubes I have heard out of current productions (Sovteks actually), I really liked the GTs that came in this amp too as far as the Russian varieties go.

Groove Tubes don't always stick with the same brand of tubes either, so who knows if all of us got the exact same Russian power tubes in our amps as stock!

I know one thing though...The GT preamp tubes were pretty forgettable, both in terms of sound, and how they tested and stacked up to the vintage tubes in my collection.

In that regard there is no comparison between any of those current Russian brands and the vintage stuff I am talking about.

Contrary to what I lot of folks assume, there was a good deal of detailed hand assembly work involved in the assembly of the plates and filaments that ultimately ended up inside those glass bottles in a lot of these tube models back in the day, and I think in many ways, that is a lost art now. Sure the Russian tube makers bought and imported a lot of the American and European tube making machinery originally used by RCA, GE, Amperex etc., but those skilled workers from the 40, 50s and 60s are for the most part no longer with us. :(

A lot of the materials used in the original vintage stuff is now banned because it is/was toxic, but some of those materials do produce a different sound when used in audio applications! So, even though some of these tube ressiues of Mullard, Tung-Sol etc. claim to be identical, they can never be truly identical, cause they must use substitute materials for a lot of the internal components now, so you are talking apples and oranges.

There is a reason why the vintage stuff is getting more and more expensive as the years go by. One of these days, they will all get used up, and that sound will be lost forever.

Not in our lifetimes, but the day will come.
 
#195
Moosehead1966 said:
I for one am a complete newbie to tube amps. I am awaiting the arrival of my 100t and hope to avail myself of your offer to purchase matched tubes, both power stage and preamp stage. I thank you for this opportunity very much. This is very kind of you. Learning about this (e.g. testing units, individual characteristics of tubes etc. is so very cool. Thank you for indulging me in my passion while I fulfill my adult/parental responsibilities. I am grateful. I will p.m. you when the head arrives.

Respectfully and thankfully,


( Geez, I sounded so wooden in the above response...) I'm just so excited to learn and appreciate tubes and associated knowledge,. I feel like a wine taster who is preparing to learn the ropes. So cool.... Marc
Click to expand...

Hey Marc,

No worries! Tube amps are a ton of fun! They are almost like living things compared to the rather dull world of solid state stuff.

Feel free to PM me if you want any detailed info on what I have available. I'm not selling off my entire collection, but I do have way more than I am ever going to use, and I think 35+ years is long enough to hold on to some of this stuff! lol! ;) Its time some of it gets used out there on the stage and in the studio! One great thing about tubes, they don't age if they are not used and if they are stored properly. Since the parts exist in a vaccuum, unless something comes along to compromise the envelope, the stuff inside is as fresh as the day it was sealed up in that glass bottle! ;)
 
#197
husky123 said:
OK guys, I'm loving the 100T so far and I'm about to try some recordings. I'm scared to death to run this in silent record mode without a speaker attached....sooooo....it'll be ok right?:eyebrow:

I guess I could lug a cab to ease my mind.
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Yes. I used mine in studio for the first time last week - ran for 5 hours is silent mode with no cab.
 

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