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Fender Bassman 100T Chapter 3

#221
PhatRon said:
Like he said.
at rehearsals I often kneel down in front of the rig. Not because I can't hear it otherwise but because it sounds so amazing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was beautiful! I'm gonna be disappointed at tomorrow night's gig I know when it's once again firing into my knees.
I'm really puzzled about your gain pedal having reverse effect. If everything's up to volume when you bypass it, you'd think it's self-compression from V1, but that doesn't make sense to me because that's always accompanied by distortion after you go just beyond a little compression, as far as I ever knew. And it sounds like what you're hearing is more than a little compression. Have you taken everything out of the chain except the gain pedal? And you're tried it with another rig you said yes?
 
#222
good point, I will try just the boost pedal and see. On the other rigs it was with the entire chain and all was fine. Here's another thing that confuses me even more; At the front end of my chain is a para eq with a boost. I use this boost to even out signal strength between my Jazz and my L-1000 into my comp. When I engage this boost I hear it just fine through the Fender. Maybe it's Gremlins!
 
#223
Looking over the circuit diagram, I wanted to update the info I've reported regarding which 12AX7 does what in the 100T. As I had originally said, one half of 12AX7 V1 is the first gain stage for both the vintage and overdrive channels, and it feeds the direct output when the D.I. button is in "pre" position. The second half of V1 is not only in the treble boost circuit of the vintage channel, but I neglected to say it is also the second gain stage of the vintage channel, which is driven by the channel volume.
Both halves of v2 are in the overdrive channel's overdrive circuit, so if blend is at 0, you are not hearing v2 at all. Following the blend control is an opamp that is the active 2nd gain stage, with channel volume, of the the overdrive channel, and that feeds the channel's active eq.
So two points about this:
First, this is one reason why the two channels sound different, with the overdrive channel sounding "faster", even when you set the eq's flat and match the volumes. On the vintage channel you are hearing two tube preamp stages. On the active channel you are hearing one tube gain stage and one active gain stage. The opamp in the overdirve channel's final gain stage is faster and cleaner than the 12AX7 used in the vintage channel, so that's the difference you hear.
Second, this would account for the difference in gain between the two channels. There's really no point in comparing them because they use completely different technologies in their final gain stages, so there's no reason to expect their gains to be the same.
 
#224
PhatRon said:
good point, I will try just the boost pedal and see. On the other rigs it was with the entire chain and all was fine. Here's another thing that confuses me even more; At the front end of my chain is a para eq with a boost. I use this boost to even out signal strength between my Jazz and my L-1000 into my comp. When I engage this boost I hear it just fine through the Fender. Maybe it's Gremlins!
Click to expand...

Yeah, one of the first things I learned back in the stone stone ages is when you trouble shoot a problem, you start with straight wire for source to input, make sure that's good, then start adding and checking one piece at a time in the order they go in the chain until you have that DOH! moment and the offending piece rears it's ugly head. It may work to bypass everything and make sure signal is good, and then start engaging the fx one at a time in order, but a lot of times you gotta move the wires.
 
#226
Great info Freight Train, I know I asked about that differences in volume between the channels a few weeks back, your info clears it all up.

PhatRon, I know you've mentioned you're using a Diamond Bass comp. I'm also using one myself with the 100t, just wondering how you're using it. I've got my P-bass with flats (played with fingers) hitting the comp, then into the vintage channel. Just a perfect old-school tone, IMO. When I play Jazz with a pick into the active channel, I find the Diamond cuts off a bit of the attack I'm going for, and as such I leave it off. Just wondering how you have it set up?

The 100t continues to impress after every time I play through it. I love that I can play a Jazz, P-bass, passive, active, rounds, flats, fingers, pick, any combination of effects, etc and there's a setting I'll find in short order on the 100t that will sound great. I actually just picked up a Dean 8 string (octave stringed) bass the other day, that thing sounds like thunder through the 100t. I though that the active channel would suit it, however I found the passive channel brings out the 'chime' of the 8 string the best.

I'd like to try rolling the tubes in the 100t at some point, just for experimentation if nothing else. I also want to ditch the Ampeg fridge I'm playing the 100t through now and get the matching 4x10, I'm sure it would look and sound great, and it'd be much easier to transport!
 
#227
the 410 neo is certainly easy to transport// load and plays well with it's Fender cousin.

The Diamond comp. has become an integral part of "my" sound. It's my american express card. It is a low ratio (3to1 if I'm not mistaken) with fixed attack/release times.The key for me is setting the threshold. It's easy to crank that up 'cause it sounds so good. I force myself to keep it at no higher than 11:00. The lower settings will help with your pick attack (raising the point where the compression begins). Set make up gain (volume) knob to taste. I prefer close to unity. Also realize that with different input levels (ie; different basses) the threshold will change. You can use different setting for each bass or as I do a boost on or off to even out the signals.

It's a wonderfully smooth comp. Just remember that the comp knob doesn't change the amount of compression, merely where it begins. Still, there's nothing wrong with turning it off when your wanting to get aggressive. Although a nice limiter might be in order to tame monster spikes (which the Diamond will not do).
 
#228
PhatRon said:
the 410 neo is certainly easy to transport// load and plays well with it's Fender cousin.

The Diamond comp. has become an integral part of "my" sound. It's my american express card. It is a low ratio (3to1 if I'm not mistaken) with fixed attack/release times.The key for me is setting the threshold. It's easy to crank that up 'cause it sounds so good. I force myself to keep it at no higher than 11:00. The lower settings will help with your pick attack (raising the point where the compression begins). Set make up gain (volume) knob to taste. I prefer close to unity. Also realize that with different input levels (ie; different basses) the threshold will change. You can use different setting for each bass or as I do a boost on or off to even out the signals.

It's a wonderfully smooth comp. Just remember that the comp knob doesn't change the amount of compression, merely where it begins. Still, there's nothing wrong with turning it off when your wanting to get aggressive. Although a nice limiter might be in order to tame monster spikes (which the Diamond will not do).
Click to expand...

I know it's each to his own, but I feel absolutely zero need to add anything to what the 100T does. Compression wise, the self-compression of the power tubes in the 100T or any tube power amp can't be matched by any box. That's exactly what vari-mu's like the Manley and Thermionic Culture try to emulate, and even they can't do it at $7,000.00 plus. But that's just me. The lower output power of the 100T will self-constrain the dynamics, that's why I wanted a low power tube amp in the first place. Don't want to drag this into fx vs. no fx, but just sayin', as the kids say.
 
#229
Nice, thanks for that info. I've actually used my MXR M-87 as a limiter with the Jazz, and it works great. I've just been trying to see if I can ditch one comp or the other. Problem is, I do like like the transparency of the MXR with the Jazz, but I miss the fatness of Diamond if I try it with the P. I'm starting to think that my tonal goals are too different between the basses/channels to use one comp for both. That's not a knock on any piece of gear BTW.

Anyways, I love finding different and/or better tones for the music I'm playing, and the 100t is a great 'base' to plug into various basses and effects to achieve my goals.
 
#230
Yeh, sounds good Freight Train, I don't doubt if I had to plug straight into the 100t, it would sound great, however, if there's one effect I 'need', it would be the Diamond comp. Just adds that something to the P-with-flats/100t combo, that takes it from great to out of this world. But different strokes for different folks.
 
#231
you're exactly correct Train. Each of us is their own. I happen to really dig what the Diamond does for my tone and it does it into whatever I'm using. It's very mild compression but a nice fattening while smoothing at the same time.The 100T does sound wonderful on it's own and I know what you mean regarding natural tube amp comp. Maybe I'm just so used to it that it feels naked without.
 
#232
Alex, that's interesting 'cause just a few days ago I was contemplating adding the mxr to do hard limiting. One issue I have with my own techniques (or lack of) is finger nail clank from my index finger when I'm digging in hard. I use Fender flats on my jazz which have some zing to them in the upper mids and I boost around 3k ish on my para eq because I like the openness it adds to the overall flavor. I am conscious of this and try to keep my nail short but it always seems to "stick" one in there now and again.
Was simply wondering if a limiter set just right could intercept or at least tame the gank. or is it a specific freq. I could cut on eq. without compromising the overall.

The band I'm in is originals and all over the map dynamically so when it's really rockin' I'm pushing the 100T pretty darn hard and it can really jump out and bite me.
 
#234
Hey Train, what flats do you use on your wunkay? That's one thing I haven't tried with mine yet. It came to me with sunbeams which do sound really good. I tried it with pressure wounds just because I had some laying around and meh, not my favorite to say the least.
My main is still Jazz (fralins) with fender flats and I have a hard time staying away too long. Maybe I should try those on the G&L
 
#235
PhatRon said:
Hey Train, what flats do you use on your wunkay? That's one thing I haven't tried with mine yet. It came to me with sunbeams which do sound really good. I tried it with pressure wounds just because I had some laying around and meh, not my favorite to say the least.
My main is still Jazz (fralins) with fender flats and I have a hard time staying away too long. Maybe I should try those on the G&L
Click to expand...

Until May of last year, the last time I had played flats was 1969. Along with the tube amp, going back to flats has brought me right where I have always wanted to be. Like I said, I love the rounds on the Jack Casady, but the flats on the L-1000 are just beautiful. I haven't tried anything else, I just went with the GHS Bright Flats, and I've got no problem with the sound. They are now a year and five months old, and sounding great.
 
#237
Choice is so wonderful. For the past five years I have been a staunch devotee of TI flats on all my basses, but recently have done a total reverse with stainless rounds on both my Jazz and Sadowsky. The Precision of course retains flats :). As usual the 100t and SB300 both respond perfectly to either string and highlight the differences nicely. Part of me wonders whether it is the Bassman that has tempted me back into rounds as it seems to emphasise the fundamental so well that errors in my technique such as string clack are not highlighted as they used to be.
FreightTrain, your comments on the overdrive channel are most enlightening, and using the term "faster" for the active channel absolutely sums up the difference as I hear it. Mind you, the vintage channel is still my go to setup.
 
#238
Freight Train said:
Until May of last year, the last time I had played flats was 1969. Along with the tube amp, going back to flats has brought me right where I have always wanted to be. Like I said, I love the rounds on the Jack Casady, but the flats on the L-1000 are just beautiful. I haven't tried anything else, I just went with the GHS Bright Flats, and I've got no problem with the sound. They are now a year and five months old, and sounding great.
Click to expand...

At a year and 5 months, they are just getting settled in! :D

I went to LaBella DT flats on my 08 am std P about a year ago and really like them. The P is maple neck and rounds were just way to clacky sounding. The flats sound fat and full on that bass. It was strange at first cause I've used Roto's RS66 for over 30 years but I still have them on my 60 P in case I want the piano growl. :)
 
#239
Freight Train said:
I know it's each to his own, but I feel absolutely zero need to add anything to what the 100T does. Compression wise, the self-compression of the power tubes in the 100T or any tube power amp can't be matched by any box. That's exactly what vari-mu's like the Manley and Thermionic Culture try to emulate, and even they can't do it at $7,000.00 plus. But that's just me. The lower output power of the 100T will self-constrain the dynamics, that's why I wanted a low power tube amp in the first place. Don't want to drag this into fx vs. no fx, but just sayin', as the kids say.
Click to expand...
.

I've got a T.C. Electroncs Hall of Fame reverb unit hooked up to my 100T permanently. It adds a nice shimmer and better definition to my high end and give my bass tone added richness.
 
#240
60bass said:
At a year and 5 months, they are just getting settled in! :D

I went to LaBella DT flats on my 08 am std P about a year ago and really like them. The P is maple neck and rounds were just way to clacky sounding. The flats sound fat and full on that bass. It was strange at first cause I've used Roto's RS66 for over 30 years but I still have them on my 60 P in case I want the piano growl. :)
Click to expand...

I go through the trouble of taking 2 basses to every gig so I have both flats and rounds. Especially for 3 piece, the change in color is very nice and keeps things from getting too samey. I still play more songs on the flats than the rounds, but the Epi with rounds sounds so flipping good on this rig the margin is narrowing.
 

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