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Fender closing Genz Benz and SWR??
- Thread starter pgolliher
- Start date
If that was the logic behind FMIC's purchase of Kaman Music, they'd also be shutting down the other brands they acquired with that purchase.
I'm in no position to comment on their motivation for doing it but they certainly do have a history of closing down companies they've bought. What's your agenda here? A few weeks ago ignoring all available evidence you were saying no way no how was Fender changing Genz Benz.
Jimmy Miller, Fender booster?
The SWR site has been down for some time. The shuttering of SWR is something that I think a lot of people have seen coming for some time. Which is a shame, because in the 90's SWR was a serious player in terms of live and studio rigs. But tastes change, and SWR was bought by FMIC. And over the past decade they've become less relevant. They tried using SWR to introduce some micro heads, but they were late to the game and not competitive. So now they're going the way of past manufacturers.
The Genz-Benz news is really much more of a surprise. I saw a lot of love for Genz-Benz on these boards. I wasn't so much of a fan of the Shuttle series heads because of their EQ sections, but that was a personal taste issue for me.
That being said, I think that Genz-Benz's demise is linked far more to FMIC's balance sheet concerns along with their desire to bolster the Fender bass amp brand. On the balance sheet front, it was somewhat notable that FMIC had been talking about an IPO and then they pulled back, keeping the company privately held. An IPO might have damaged them, and it seems likely that they were looking to clear some debt off of their books.
And on the branding front? Fender is a huge name in the bass world. So why do people look down on their bass amps? Witness the introduction of their Bassman series within the past year in an attempt to appeal to the crowd that lives and breathes Ampeg. And there was also the introduction of cabinets in that Bassman series that are equipped with Neo drivers. That's something where there was likely overlap with Genz-Benz.
The Genz-Benz news is really much more of a surprise. I saw a lot of love for Genz-Benz on these boards. I wasn't so much of a fan of the Shuttle series heads because of their EQ sections, but that was a personal taste issue for me.
That being said, I think that Genz-Benz's demise is linked far more to FMIC's balance sheet concerns along with their desire to bolster the Fender bass amp brand. On the balance sheet front, it was somewhat notable that FMIC had been talking about an IPO and then they pulled back, keeping the company privately held. An IPO might have damaged them, and it seems likely that they were looking to clear some debt off of their books.
And on the branding front? Fender is a huge name in the bass world. So why do people look down on their bass amps? Witness the introduction of their Bassman series within the past year in an attempt to appeal to the crowd that lives and breathes Ampeg. And there was also the introduction of cabinets in that Bassman series that are equipped with Neo drivers. That's something where there was likely overlap with Genz-Benz.
You don't really believe that, do you? Besides, what's so different about them? Tons of companies have micro amps. Genz Benz stuff is really good, but it's not like they reinvented the wheel.
I have Carvin, GK, Trace Elliot, and finally just got a Genz Benz combo.
They may not have "reinvented the wheel," as you put it, but they certainly perfected it. This is not to mention their reputation for excellent customer support.
I don't know about perfecting it so much. Rather, I think they were able to offer up a blend of new technologies (micro heads, neo drivers) and offer them across a wide dealer network at reasonable prices. But I get the sneaking suspicion that someone at FMIC was probably looking at the Genz-Benz line and wondered "Is this profitable?"
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
I think everybody knows exactly what happened, the Genz Benz line was not moving enough units, plain and simple. That is business.
Get real, Jeff. Seriously. Is Gretsch shut down? Charvel/Jackson? Groove Tubes? Ovation? Guild? Takamine?I'm in no position to comment on their motivation for doing it but they certainly do have a history of closing down companies they've bought. What's your agenda here? A few weeks ago ignoring all available evidence you were saying no way no how was Fender changing Genz Benz.
Jimmy Miller, Fender booster?
And please don't misquote me. I never said no way no how was GB getting closed up. All I said is it's not a good idea to start potentially damaging rumors about a company you like if you don't know the real facts, and that I thought it was dopey to shut down a company that sells and has the rep of Genz Benz.
Another possibility is Genz-Benz did not have a huge market penetration. Fender engineering could not match the sound and dependability of Genz-Benz. Now we own Kaman, lets use Jeff and Andy from Genz to make a big splash for Fender SS amps for acoustic and electric bass.
FMIC doesn't own Gretch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretsch
"In 2003 Gretsch entered into an agreement with Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC), under the terms of which Fred Gretsch III would continue to own the company, with FMIC handling most development, distribution and sales."
Have any luck ordering a Hamer guitar lately?
The confusion probably comes from the fact that FMIC lists Gretsch Guitars on it's site under "Other Brands" and FMIC acquired Gretsch Drums when it bought Kaman.
I can never figure out if it's funny or sad that people worry about "starting rumors", or wait for some "official announcement" from some marketeer who takes months to figure out just the right type and amount of smoke to blow up their backsides before seeing this stuff for what it is.
Anybody with any common sense knew after the first thread on this Genz was done. If for no other reason than the deafening silence from the Genz guys.
Q. "Why didn't they post there? They're always in top of anything to do with Genz."
A. Because they weren't allowed to.
Q. "Who didn't allow them to?"
A. Fender. They own them and told them to keep quiet or they're fired.
Q. "Why would they do that?"
A. Because they're in the middle of a corporate shakeup, closing down more companies people in Talkbass like, like Genz Benz.
Some people who are so caught up in the compartmentalized corporate culture they can't see the forest through the trees might call stuff like that "unfounded speculation", or "starting rumors". Or wonder "how can you say that? We don't know because they haven't told us."
The rest of us call it common sense.
For now, enjoy the deals on the amps, they're not making any more. Once they announce them as "discontinued products", you won't be getting all these crazy deals anymore.
IMO, the best we could hope for is that Fender learns a thing or two about how to treat customers from the Genz guys.......I'm not holding my breath.
Anybody with any common sense knew after the first thread on this Genz was done. If for no other reason than the deafening silence from the Genz guys.
Q. "Why didn't they post there? They're always in top of anything to do with Genz."
A. Because they weren't allowed to.
Q. "Who didn't allow them to?"
A. Fender. They own them and told them to keep quiet or they're fired.
Q. "Why would they do that?"
A. Because they're in the middle of a corporate shakeup, closing down more companies people in Talkbass like, like Genz Benz.
Some people who are so caught up in the compartmentalized corporate culture they can't see the forest through the trees might call stuff like that "unfounded speculation", or "starting rumors". Or wonder "how can you say that? We don't know because they haven't told us."
The rest of us call it common sense.
For now, enjoy the deals on the amps, they're not making any more. Once they announce them as "discontinued products", you won't be getting all these crazy deals anymore.
IMO, the best we could hope for is that Fender learns a thing or two about how to treat customers from the Genz guys.......I'm not holding my breath.
IIRC Agedhorse won a industry award for his Shuttlemax 12.0 design. It beats any crap that ampeg has in the lightweight category.
You can say that now because we pretty much know it's true. Could have easily gone the other way.
Hopkins
Commercial User
My guess is that when all the GB stock is sold out Fender will launch the same products under the Fender badge, possibly with different model names. It makes sense to not have competition within the same company.
I'm not so sure about "easily", but it is possible. In general though, in sort of "big guy vs. little guy" stuff, little guy may win a few battles but big guy wins the war. Maybe not every time, but big guy gets his way a lot more often than little guy.
I just find it completely naive to go against what should be one's gut instincts on stuff like this and instead wait for a carefully crafted message who's only purpose is to sway your opinion and separate you from your money.......delivered by some spokesmouth who's only goal is to line the pockets of some "board of directors on high".
Most of us have been around long enough to know how this stuff usually goes down.
