Fender Decals On Non-Fender Basses

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There's nothing wrong with playing a Squier. Which makes it even more sad when a Squier owner feels so self conscious about his image that he feels compelled to disguise that instrument as something else.

+1 Why?
I know a few very good guitar players that have some very expensive CS Fenders but 90% of the time they gig with a Squier. They don't want to drag their expensive guitars around to get beat up or stolen. They can make that Squier sound good and they know it. One guy even told me it gives him a ego boost to play a show and sound good on a inexpensive Squier Tele and he wants to show people how good he is.

 

[EricF]

If I bought a Fender body, and a Fender neck, and assembled it with Fender tuners, pups, knobs, bridge, neckplate, pickguard, and the same CTS pots and jack that Fender uses, would it be a Fender?

 

[metron]

There's nothing wrong with playing a Squier. Which makes it even more sad when a Squier owner feels so self conscious about his image that he feels compelled to disguise that instrument as something else.

To play devil's advocate, you are being presumptuous (and somewhat deprecating) on the decal users intent. What about those who might be trying to pander to the unwarranted elitist who might not take someone seriously who plays a Squier. You know they are out there, the people who judge a player with their eyes first and foremost. What if there is a killer player out there who can't get good work because all they can afford is a knockoff. Are they justified in applying a decal so as to not be subject to bias?

 

[Gort]

If I bought a Fender body, and a Fender neck, and assembled it with Fender tuners, pups, knobs, bridge, neckplate, pickguard, and the same CTS pots and jack that Fender uses, would it actually be a Fender?

Interesting question, but that sounds more like a parts bass made with Fender components.

 

[Madcity Fats]

Brand loyalty is one thing, but brand devotion is another. That sword swings both ways. Is it silly that some can't stand the idea of playing a P-style or J-style bass without the "F" logo on it? Yeah, it probably is. What I find sillier are those of you who sound so offended by the notion that you're ready to do the work of the FMIC Legal Department pro bono and start handing out cease and desist letters to a bunch of hobbyists just looking to create full-scale replicas without any intent of misrepresenting them.

One wonders what it is about this huge, faceless, multinational company run by a bunch of fat, rich suits who couldn't finger an "E" chord if you held a gun to their greedy skulls that has so captured your imagination. Perhaps I'd feel more pity for the company if they weren't currently intent on killing mom 'n' pop music stores everywhere and buying up the competition because it's easier than competing in the arena of ideas and innovation. Sure, Fender makes some nice stuff, but the history of the company's business practices is not all rosy. All the knock-offs in the world haven't hurt the company as much as their own mismanagement over the years.

Putting logos on cheap knock-offs? Meh. Fender does it all the time. And totally off-topic: A "custom shop" where I can't order an instrument to my exact specs is a total misnomer.

And lest anyone care to characterize this as the post of a mere Fender hater, my first bass was a '68 Jazz and my current collection consists mostly of 80s G&L basses. My appreciation of Leo's genius and legacy is well established. But I don't carry water for any corporation whose actions clearly indicate they care more about the bottom line than they do their customer base (or once loyal, smaller scale dealers, for that matter).

 

[smcd]

Agreed, I don't get it. I have two Squiers I would be quite happy to play-out with without trying to pass them off as something they're not. And If anyone has the nerve to come up and give me grief for it, I will attempt to politely educate them on the facts. If they still don't get it, there's not much else I can do but to then tell them "Sorry, but if you're going to persist in being a gear snob, then there's no point in me talking to you any further."
What anyone else thinks of the gear I use is nowhere near as important to me as what I think of it.

There are 2 types of gear snobs:

There's the type that will look down on someone because that person plays a Squier. That guy's an idiot.
Then there's the type that will subtly call someone out on counterfeiting their instrument. That guy is doing a public service.

It's just too bad that the counterfeit crowd feels intimidated by the first type of gear snob.

 

[EricF]

Interesting question, but that sounds more like a parts bass made with Fender components.

To me, that's all it is. However, I also subscribe to the theory that all Fenders (regardless of who assembled them) are, in fact, "parts" basses/guitars. There isn't any magic that happens in the Fender factory that can't be duplicated by anyone who has the knowledge and skill to assemble and fine-tune a Fender-style instrument. Once in a while, you'll find a collection of parts that really sing together, but it's going to be as random for you and me as it is at the Fender factory.

 

[sleepy_monkey]

There are 2 types of gear snobs:

There's the type that will look down on someone because that person plays a Squier. That guy's an idiot.
Then there's the type that will subtly call someone out on counterfeiting their instrument. That guy is doing a public service.

It's just too bad that the counterfeit crowd feels intimidated by the first type of gear snob.

Awesome.

 

[Burlington]

Are you and I reading the same thread??


Speaking for myself, I'm not mad at Squier owners. I'm saddened by those who feel so ashamed of the instrument they play that they feel compelled to go to great lengths to disguise it as something else. I'm bemused by those who claim they "don't care", but still go through the trouble to pull off this charade. And I'm incredulous of those who claim they'll "never sell", or will be "straightforward" with those who buy their fraudulent instrument.

Yup, we are. You're mad.

 

[smcd]

To play devil's advocate, you are being presumptuous (and somewhat deprecating) on the decal users intent. What about those who might be trying to pander to the unwarranted elitist who might not take someone seriously who plays a Squier. You know they are out there, the people who judge a player with their eyes first and foremost. What if there is a killer player out there who can't get good work because all they can afford is a knockoff. Are they justified in applying a decal so as to not be subject to bias?

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but assuming you aren't....

There is nobody out there that turn down a "killer" player because he plays an off-branded Fender clone. No one will think "I'd like to give that really great player the gig, but he plays a Warmouth bas, and I really want a guy who plays a Fender". That person does not exist.

 

[scotch]

Hasn't this thread already happened?

And didn't it result in the same conclusion? :scowl:

Nobody really changed their mind one way or the other. There are those who have no problem with acquiring and using a counterfeit decal (for whatever "noble" reason). Then there are those who think it's wrong to acquire and use a counterfeit decal (for whatever "noble" reason).

Arguments on either side are debatable- whether the bass will be misrepresented, whether Fender's trademark 'deserves' protection, whether or not carrots taste good, etc... What's NOT debatable (from a factual, living-in-the-real-world perspective) is that whoever is manufacturing and selling the decals is a counterfeiter. Where you stand morally, ethically, whatever is irrelevant. That's what they are... counterfeiters who are profiting from FMIC's history, products and marketing investment.

 

[smcd]

Yup, we are. You're mad.

I am?? Wow. I wonder then what feeling is when someone cuts me off in traffic? "Uncontrollable murderous atomic rage", maybe??

 

[smcd]

If I bought a Fender body, and a Fender neck, and assembled it with Fender tuners, pups, knobs, bridge, neckplate, pickguard, and the same CTS pots and jack that Fender uses, would it be a Fender?

How about the headstock decal? Is that genuine Fender?

 

[mikeswals]

If I bought a Fender body, and a Fender neck, and assembled it with Fender tuners, pups, knobs, bridge, neckplate, pickguard, and the same CTS pots and jack that Fender uses, would it be a Fender?

Well, if you bought that neck from Fender it would already have a factory Fender decal on it now, wouldn't it.

Fender built all of your parts in their factory, yes it would be a Fender.

 

[smcd]

There are Fender decals on eBay fyi for all of the Fender police.

Of course there are.

I dont' want to burst your bubble, but those decals aren't made by Fender. Not only that, but you can't just go to Fender and buy headstock decals. For a reason.

 

[Madcity Fats]

Then there's the type that will subtly call someone out on counterfeiting their instrument. That guy is doing a public service.

Geez, would you also call out the poor kid on the playground wearing the fake Adidas? You've got a pretty sad and narrow view of what a public service is, I'll tell you that much. I've worked in public service all my professional life. Sucking up to the Fender brand by being their vigilante secret shopper counterfeit-outter doesn't rate in my book.

It's just too bad that the counterfeit crowd feels intimidated by the first type of gear snob.

Incidentally, the word "counterfeit" generally connotes a fake made with the intent to defraud. Much of what you're railing against here (ad nauseam, I might add), doesn't really fit that label.

But your ability to know just what it is that motivates every other musician in the world is truly astounding. Somewhere, Kreskin and The Amazing Randi are cowering in a corner.

 

[smcd]

I bought a P-Bass neck over the internet. A Fender certified tech told me it was a MIJ Fender neck. I put the neck on a Fender MIM body and added an "Original 62" pickup. I put the Fender decal on it because it IS a Fender.

Funny how that genuine MIJ Fender neck didn't have a decal on it, huh??




A while back I bought a paint by numbers Picasso kit. I used the same oils as Picasso, the same brushes, the same canvas material. And when I was done, damned if that thing didn't look exactly like a Picasso. I even aped his signature perfectly. And when people come over my house and ask if that painting is a Picasso, I say "yes", because it IS a Picasso.

 

[Bassguy61]

What I find very interesting is how this whole idea of "re-badging" seems to be viewed differently depending on the nature of the product that's re-branded. Someone earlier on mentioned the kits to make a replica (tribute) Shelby Cobra, amd I think that's a great analogy. I like to watch the Mecum auto auctions on the tube, and every show there are lots of cars that, due to having the same body style, get restored and rebranded as their classic muscle car cousin. Yet there, no one seems to care one bit about it. They don't degrade the car and it's owner for being posers or charlatans. They simply talk about the merits of the restoration and praise the fine craftsmanship that went into it. Everything is disclosed, and the cars don't sell for near the price of their siblings, but no one seems concerned either.

It seems to me to be the same concept as using putting a Fender logo on a Squier or parts bass. I just find it curious that rebranding a classic car seems to be a non-issue, but rebranding a musical instrument is seen by many to be such a terrible act

I don't have a rebranded bass, but would not hesitate to do it. In my case there are a number of things that I love about various Fender bases, and they would never all exist together on any real bass. So for me, it would be creating my tribute to Fender basses. If it sold and all was disclosed, I really don't see an issue, but that's just me.

 

[sleepy_monkey]

Of course there are.

I dont' want to burst your bubble, but those decals aren't made by Fender. Not only that, but you can't just go to Fender and buy headstock decals. For a reason.

I didn't say they were...I just thought I would throw that out there so you could contact Fender.

 

[Richard G]

What I find very interesting is how this whole idea of "re-badging" seems to be viewed differently depending on the nature of the product that's re-branded. Someone earlier on mentioned the kits to make a replica (tribute) Shelby Cobra, amd I think that's a great analogy. I like to watch the Mecum auto auctions on the tube, and every show there are lots of cars that, due to having the same body style, get restored and rebranded as their classic muscle car cousin. Yet there, no one seems to care one bit about it. They don't degrade the car and it's owner for being posers or charlatans. They simply talk about the merits of the restoration and praise the fine craftsmanship that went into it. Everything is disclosed, and the cars don't sell for near the price of their siblings, but no one seems concerned either.

It seems to me to be the same concept as using putting a Fender logo on a Squier or parts bass. I just find it curious that rebranding a classic car seems to be a non-issue, but rebranding a musical instrument is seen by many to be such a terrible act

I don't have a rebranded bass, but would not hesitate to do it. In my case there are a number of things that I love about various Fender bases, and they would never all exist together on any real bass. So for me, it would be creating my tribute to Fender basses. If it sold and all was disclosed, I really don't see an issue, but that's just me.

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