Car alignment doesn't tend to change with the temperature or humidity either.
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Fender factory setups - why so high?
- Thread starter shewhorn
- Start date
Car alignment doesn't tend to change with the temperature or humidity either.
Except if you read my later post you will see that Sadowsky recommends almost the exact same specs and refers to them as low action. Do you think Sadowsky purposely sets his action high?
From a sales aspect. I don't know why the merchants don't have someone on staff setup the guitars as they hit the shelf. Sure it is labor intensive, but I would be inclined to buy a guitar if it was playable.
This happened to me last week. I bought a new ATK 200. I went to set it up the next night and discovered a back bow that I could not correct because the truss rod was already loosened right off. Only owned it for two days and it is in the shop for repairs. By rights the store should have found the problem themselves and not even have it on the shelf.
This happened to me last week. I bought a new ATK 200. I went to set it up the next night and discovered a back bow that I could not correct because the truss rod was already loosened right off. Only owned it for two days and it is in the shop for repairs. By rights the store should have found the problem themselves and not even have it on the shelf.
I've played a couple dozen Fenders in stores near me since last fall and I have not found any of them to be set up particularly high. There is an Ibanez SR305 in a GC near me that is set up with the bridge height adjustment screws maxed out. For me it makes the bass unplayable so I mentioned this to one of the salesmen. He just did not seem able to grasp the concept that an unplayable bass is largely an unsellable bass. Some customers might notice the problem, as I did, and realize that it can be addressed. Many will not, they only note that it is a horrible bass. Even for those of us who see the problem it remains a problem in terms of buying the bass because unless the store is willing to adjust it properly you cannot evaluate it and evaluating it is the whole reason you go to a brick and mortar store instead of trolling for the lowest price online. If your bass is unplayable I have to go to one of your competitors to try it properly and I cannot imagine that you want me to do that since you all tend to have the same price....
So I don't know that this is particularly a Fender problem since it isn't a Fender problem at all in my experience. However, it is a huge problem for store owners and if I owned a guitar store I would make sure all my floor models were set up properly because you don't want potential customers to have to go to your competitors to properly try an instrument. GC has the additional problem that they try to sell you their extended warranty and exactly why would I buy an extended warranty from a company that cannot set up a bass properly? I'm not dumping on GC, I have purchased from them with excellent results but like any company they have their blind spots and faults. In fact the GC nearest my home is the one that doesn't bother with setups, the one nearest my work is excellent about this so it varies from store to store as well.
Ken
So I don't know that this is particularly a Fender problem since it isn't a Fender problem at all in my experience. However, it is a huge problem for store owners and if I owned a guitar store I would make sure all my floor models were set up properly because you don't want potential customers to have to go to your competitors to properly try an instrument. GC has the additional problem that they try to sell you their extended warranty and exactly why would I buy an extended warranty from a company that cannot set up a bass properly? I'm not dumping on GC, I have purchased from them with excellent results but like any company they have their blind spots and faults. In fact the GC nearest my home is the one that doesn't bother with setups, the one nearest my work is excellent about this so it varies from store to store as well.
Ken
Dosen't suprise me in the least. I worked at Washburn from 1984-1985. The instruments would come from Japan in boxes, and we were expected to set up 30 or so instruments a day. We had people that were masters at whipping through them (they were marginal at best) and it got to the point where we had to be doing more, with the owner walking through the setup areas chanting (in a thick German accent) "Production, Production" and the setup manager getting so much pressure to get more out the door because were were behind getting the stuff out to Manny's and Sam Ash etc. that he eventually was yelling out at us "Clip 'em & ship 'em" meaning, clip the string ends sticking way off the tuners, and put them back in the box and get them out the door. No setup at all, just bust them out the door. Well, we all had to fill out one of those tags that indicates that the instrument was expertly setup and checked before shipping and we had to sign our names to them....it was at that point that I was signing names like Keith Moon, Jimi Hendrix and other dead rock stars and even baseball players to the tags. I wasn't attaching my name to those trainwrecks. As one would figure, weeks later there were complaints coming from the stores that the guitars weren't setup AT ALL and of course heat came down for that too from upper management. In 1985 they moved their facility to Buffalo Grove, IL and in the process, it was impossible to find a guitar that you needed to ship out to a customer because of all the confusion and missplaced things in the move. The owner put us on piece work, meaning we were getting paid only for what we did and if you think about it, we were having trouble even finding the stuff....it was at that point when I walked away from the nightmare known as Washburn.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I think it all comes down to the cost of tweaking the hundreds of instruments a typical Guitar Center has on the wall, and the fact that the sales staff is there to turn them over as fast as possible.
The theory that the set ups are high (on Fenders) so they can get away with shoddy workmanship doesn't jive with my experience setting up many of those basses. Most of the time especially with American Deluxe, I was able to get the action quite low. The Mexican Fenders, not so much. The fret work isn't quite at the same level.
The theory that the set ups are high (on Fenders) so they can get away with shoddy workmanship doesn't jive with my experience setting up many of those basses. Most of the time especially with American Deluxe, I was able to get the action quite low. The Mexican Fenders, not so much. The fret work isn't quite at the same level.
A couple of things..
Music stores (IME) NEVER set up instruments. They get tagged and hung on the wall as soon as they come in. Sinking money into a set up is just not time or generally cost effective. More often than not the first time a guitar gets even tuned is by the first customer taking off the wall to try or the sales person plugging it in before handing to the customer. They will only be looked at if several customers complain or the customer says I will by this one if you set it up.
There a lot more ham fisted people (or "aggressive" players) out there trying to play basses, especially Fenders, than any others.
Having action higher than many experienced people want SELLS basses. The ham fisted people will not buy a bass that is set low and buzzes. The higher action, for them, does not buzz, tends to be louder and more bassey.
The more experienced players will tolerate a higher action when trying it out. They are able to judge the sound and feel of a bass regardless of how it's set up.
When they buy they will tend to buy the strings they prefer and set it up to their specs immediately.
If what you're saying is true, why would you buy it in the 1st place??? It's not like a backbow is hard to see, IME... Also, why wouldn't you just return it, instead of putting it in the shop??? After all, you said it was new, and there are plenty of ATKs around...
- georgestrings
All music stores would see a strong spike in their stringed instrument sales if they invested the time to make them nicely playable. I am shocked at the terrible set-ups that are hanging in most music stores; you can't even get to the heart of an instrument's sound sometimes.
IMO, it is very poor merchandising and salescraft, what most stores do.
IMO, it is very poor merchandising and salescraft, what most stores do.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Oh, I agree - that being said, if I'm truly interested in an instrument, I'll either ask for some allen wrenches, or bring some with me - and in 5 minutes, I can have a bass adjusted well enough to be able to tell if it's worth buying or not... Most of the time, it's a matter of tightening the trussrod a little to remove excessive neck relief...
- georgestrings
couple of notes...
least common denominator.... new and hack players play harder..
Cost.. would you pay for a 3 hour setup and intoantion?
Guitar Center / Big boxes.... local vendors used to do this a s a value.
Vendor.... find a better place to go shopping.
least common denominator.... new and hack players play harder..
Cost.. would you pay for a 3 hour setup and intoantion?
Guitar Center / Big boxes.... local vendors used to do this a s a value.
Vendor.... find a better place to go shopping.
While it sounds good...
Are you willing to pay $20-30 extra for this?
IME, most want the set up, but refuse to pay any upcharge for it, demanding the brick and mortar store matches the price of the online company.
Many times customers expect the store to match the sale price AND also eat the sales tax.
For a store sinking extra money into a guitar on the front end is a loser.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Shucks I did a set up on a G&L that was hanging on the way at a local specialty bass retailer in about 10 minutes. Intonation would have added another 10 tops.
There is no excuse for the Big Box Boys not to do this.
One guy who does nothing but set up instruments can do this quickly. Anything that makes a happier customer, short of giving stuff away, should be a no-brainer. Struggling with a crappy setup can't possibly give you confidence in the rest of a music store's interest in customer service.
I'll wager that I can perform a serviceable setup and tuning on a bass in about 20 minutes, maybe less. It isn't exactly piano tuning. And it doesn't have to be clinically perfect. What it does have to do is show that somebody gave a crap about the instrument.
I'll wager that I can perform a serviceable setup and tuning on a bass in about 20 minutes, maybe less. It isn't exactly piano tuning. And it doesn't have to be clinically perfect. What it does have to do is show that somebody gave a crap about the instrument.
