Fender Hires Guitar Center CEO

[SanDiegoHarry]

Just one more reason to buy G&L.

Or any number of alternatives...

I like some of the latest Fenders... but they aren't particularly "Special" -- And none, not one, plays as well as my Lakland.

Fender would do well to introduce some small improvements into their Am Std line - contoured neck neck joints, for example. When Fender radically changes the base designs, customers rebell - even when it's an improvement... but small improvements are good. Their bridges are better than ever, their pickups are better... Neck stability is better... but they really need to find a way to make you WANT to buy a US bass that isn't "I wanna support US jobs". That's just not enough if, if you want to continue to call your MIM basses "Fenders".

Back when Squire was the only off-shored brand, the scheme worked good - - you clearly *got* something for your money with a Fender. Now? It's harder and harder to say.

 

[SurferJoe46]

You make some very good points but I think they miss a primary motive behind Fender at the moment.

I posted a thought of mine in Miscellaneous and I think it hits deeper than what you said:::

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=679031

Here comes a long rant about the American MI business.

There is the art to making a fine musical instrument.

Then there is the business of making money making fine musical instruments.

This is the age-old dilemma, can you do both?

You all know about the boutique bass manufacturers, they make a decent living, because they charge $3-$5K per bass, but they can't make a lot of them, or sell very many. Their customer base is very small, but there is always a market for prestige gear.

Fender takes an opposite view and tries to have a more broad appeal for the masses (and many of you hate them for it). In trying to make money, Fender, and many other American businesses have pushed their manufacturing to lower cost environments. First Mexico, then Asia. The push to offshore manufacturing is all about lowering the cost of goods sold, and increasing the narrow margins you are currently getting on every guitar you sell to GC. The trick is to not compromise on certain things, so you need reputable partners, that make good stuff, that you don't get sued and don't loose your customers.

Sometimes, the push for profitability goes too far. Look at Toyota. Best in quality for what, 30 years, and then they start getting really big (the GM of Japanese car companies) and the pressure to continue to make money leads smart people to start cutting corners, and all of a sudden they are front-page news, and their reputation is shot and TM may never fully recover its market share gains.

Me, I like companies that are innovative, even if big. That's why I own Apple computers and gadgets, and aspire to own more Ernie Ball Musicman basses. EB has put out more innovative basses in the past 10 years than prob. any other bass company, and they have largely done it still making them in America (forget the SBMM line, its not theirs, its licensed). Being innovative means taking risks, something that many of you have mentioned Fender really hasn't been doing recently.

When you take risks, sometimes you fail, but if you trust your people, yourself, and your sense of where the business is going, you can be successful for a long time (see Steve Jobs).

So hiring Larry Thomas is quintesential Fender. Its a safe move. He won't screw things up, and he's a true MI guy, the brand is less likely to suffer from "mistakes", and I expect few radical departures from where Fender has been heading for the past several years. He might buy Lakland, or Sadowsky, as that's been GC's strategy of buying up its prime competition. In the meantime, I just hope nothing happens to Sterling Ball!

 

[panama]

Judging by how Fender lately has decided if they drop the level of quality but raise the level of $$ I thought it couldnt get any worse... Im not sure if this is good or not but I still refuse to play Fender again until I know there instruments are worth the money... and that may be a while...

What? Fender is producing some of the most solid basses they've made in years right now. Yes, prices went up, but jeez...

 

[SurferJoe46]

Yeah! Have you bought milk or gasoline lately too?

Everything's going up, and Fender was a long time coming with their uptick, which they actually toned down a lot a few months later.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Fender adding the CEO of GC to it's line up is not a bad thing in my eyes. Unlike earlier posts have stated, he is not a "salesman". He's management. While its true that sales are a part of his job (as with any other company I might add) his role also includes accounting, logistics, marketing, HR, networking with other companies, etc... This can only help Fender. Besides who would be more qualified?

Let's face facts, here we are 60+ years later and Fender still makes the same three guitars and basses they've always made with little to no real advancement in design. A swap of pickups here, a new finish there, but no real innovation since Leo ran the show. "Let's take an American made Jazz and hit it with a belt sander. We'll call it a 'Relic' and charge people $2,500 to $4,000 for about $500 in parts." This is the best marketing idea you can come up with? Really? How about a few new models of guitars and basses instead? Fender (and Gibson) are drowning in their own tradition, and have developed their own little niche (aka rut).

It is true that Fender did put out the VG Strat which I thought was an awesome guitar but nobody really bought them. Heck GC was trying to get rid of them for less than the price of a standard Strat at one point. The problem is that the type of guitarist that would be into that kind of tech is more than likely playing an Ibanez, or Parker, or something along those lines.

Most people that play a Fender are looking for that traditional vintage vibe and the sense of heritage that comes from playing a P or J bass. This is not a bad thing and you have to use what makes you happy and works for you and what you play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is any thing decidedly "broken" with Fender (got my eye on a P-Bass Special at the moment) I just wish they would add to what they already do. The recent addition of compound radius fingerboards and contoured neck heels are great upgrades to the new models, however other companies have been doing these kind of thinigs for over two decades.

I think that this new addition to Fenders staff may be just the guy to break Fender out of its stagnant zombie like state. I don't think this guy is going to do any major mods to the Fender recipe but like I said the new blood may inspire some new design ideas, which can only add to our options as musicians.

If you got this far, thanks for indulging me with my rant and groove on

(Ducking flying tomatos )

Misguided tho' it may be.. It's a boilerplate of the one most often made IMO.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This guy is and should be far removed from the people who design and manufacture the product. All he needs to know is sales and marketing. It doesn't matter to Fender what level of quality their products are. If people want inexpensive junk, he needs to know that and make sure that the customer base is provided with inexpensive junk.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You assume a great deal here. Having worked for a company that churns its executive staff about ever 5 years, what I've seen is that every CEO or President that comes on board wants to "Make his mark". It is almost certain that he was hired to make Fender more profitable, not to "build a better guitar" or "Create more US jobs". I would expect prices to go up on US instruments as well as a much more strict dealer network (Fender has a very very broad dealer base, which GC has never liked...)

Look at it this way: Is GC a better place to buy gear today than it was 20 years ago? It may well be more profitable and efficient, but for us, the gear consumer, is it a better place? I say *no*. Absolutely not. The homogeneity between stores is Walmartesque, they have restricted pricing by refusing to compete between stores, they have purposefully expanded the franchise wherever any successful music retailers are located, ultimately restricting choice to the working musician. If one looks at GC today and is not pleased, you can expect the same at Fender. This guy is *not* going to change his style just because he runs a cool company...

Never saw a 20 year old GC. What was better then?

 

[Brad Johnson]

What? Fender is producing some of the most solid basses they've made in years right now. Yes, prices went up, but jeez...

Some of this stuff really does come off as genuinely delusional... or hopefully just disingenuous as hell.

 

[mikeswals]

Never saw a 20 year old GC. What was better then?

I agree with Harry. 15-20 years ago I used to walk into guitar Center and find brand new: Pedulla, Zon, Rickenbacker, all of the RI Fender models, several fretlesses, and what standard low priced basses that were hanging on the wall there was more than one color.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I agree with Harry. 15-20 years ago I used to walk into guitar Center and find brand new: Pedulla, Zon, Rickenbacker, all of the RI Fender models, several fretlesses, and what standard low priced basses that were hanging on the wall there was more than one color.

A big difference is that they decided to impose a uniform standard on their stores, so that the "Customer Experience" is pretty much same from store to store. You know - like McDonalds.

When GC's operated as independent franchises, they all had their own character - they carried some different stuff, had variations in policy, people. The Hollywood GC was downright cool back then - now it's just like the GC's here in San Diego - plain, sterile, dull. And yes - they used to carry better gear back then - - fewer Indo/Chinese brands and more high-end stuff... as well as more variety: You could actually find a fretless bass at a GC Back then! Good luck with that now...

I used to take the bus downtown back in the '70s to go to our only GC in town and it was GREAT - always something new, and since it was one of the few real guitar stores in town, there was always real musicians in there checking out and buying gear (very inspiring for a young musician). Now? It's all about selling guitars to children, so every store has that same kid playing that same Metallica riff at max volume over... and over... and over...

I tell you - if I won the lotto, I'd open a music store here in SD for the rest of us - it may not make money, but it would be a good place to do business... and it would be *fun*.

Okay, enough about GC - what will this mean for Fender? More of the same. Fender has been going down this road for a long time - and, really, they have been militant about brand uniformity for years... What I expect Mr. GC to do with Fender is work to increase profit (as he should), which means he'll work to find ways to raise prices and drive costs out of the product. Expect more BS "versions" of the old J bass to be made with a higher price tag and made, more than likely, outside of the US.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I agree with Harry. 15-20 years ago I used to walk into guitar Center and find brand new: Pedulla, Zon, Rickenbacker, all of the RI Fender models, several fretlesses, and what standard low priced basses that were hanging on the wall there was more than one color.

I know of several stores that had a similar model. And when they couldn't sell the higher end stuff, they stopped. To me that made sense. The ones that didn't are no longer around.

 

[Brad Johnson]

To read this thread you'd think that Fender's not doing much of anything right, hasn't made any changes in decades (which clearly isn't true either) and by having someone formerly associated with GC will do more of the same. I'm guessing these people genuinely believe all of the negativity they're espousing, otherwise why do it? In the meantime I'd lay odds they're wrong. Just like before.

It really seems to go over many heads that one reason, possibly the main one, that people buy Fender has nothing to do with nostalgia. Their gear works. I do wonder how many have a truly negative opinion of Fender not based on something silly like the setup of an instrument in a store or the fact that they don't like anything that popular. Or problems with used gear where the prior treatment of that gear is ignored as a possible culprit for any issues.

aka reality.


It's probably fun to have a recurring boogeyman to poke at, in the meantime Fender seems to be chugging right along... in spite of you.

 

[Xray66]

To read this thread you'd think that Fender's not doing much of anything right, hasn't made any changes in decades (which clearly isn't true either) and by having someone formerly associated with GC will do more of the same. I'm guessing these people genuinely believe all of the negativity they're espousing, otherwise why do it? In the meantime I'd lay odds they're wrong. Just like before.

It really seems to go over many heads that one reason, possibly the main one, that people buy Fender has nothing to do with nostalgia. Their gear works. I do wonder how many have a truly negative opinion of Fender not based on something silly like the setup of an instrument in a store or the fact that they don't like anything that popular. Or problems with used gear where the prior treatment of that gear is ignored as a possible culprit for any issues.

aka reality.


It's probably fun to have a recurring boogeyman to poke at, in the meantime Fender seems to be chugging right along... in spite of you.

The last three Fenders in a row I had were terrible. Improperly dried wood, shrinking/warping neck, body that shrank and started showing the glue lines in a year, broken bridge, off center inlays, frets sticking out... And no, I'm not an idiot that doesn't know how to take care of stuff. Anything I own lasts a long time.

So that was enough for me. Never again. Look at all the reviews... Sure, you get some good ones... You also get plenty of disasters as well. At best, their quality is all over the place. With the kind of manufacturing techniques and equipment available nowadays, that just doesn't cut it. You should be able to order something sight unseen, and have a reasonable guarantee of not getting a nightmare to deal with. I manufacture things for a living... I know a business that's just cranking out product on cruise-control when I see it. They get the prices they get and survive on their name. If a Carvin or a Schecter were all over the place on quality like that, they would have been gone years ago.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The last three Fenders in a row I had were terrible. Improperly dried wood, shrinking/warping neck, body that shrank and started showing the glue lines in a year, broken bridge, off center inlays, frets sticking out... And no, I'm not an idiot that doesn't know how to take care of stuff. Anything I own lasts a long time.

Obviously not. No offense. Just reading what you wrote.

So you bought those three Fenders new? I can understand buying a second terrible instrument, giving a company the benefit of the doubt. Why would you try a third time? I'm genuinely curious.

So that was enough for me. Never again. Look at all the reviews... Sure, you get some good ones... You also get plenty of disasters as well. At best, their quality is all over the place. With the kind of manufacturing techniques and equipment available nowadays, that just doesn't cut it. You should be able to order something sight unseen, and have a reasonable guarantee of not getting a nightmare to deal with. I manufacture things for a living... I know a business that's just cranking out product on cruise-control when I see it. They get the prices they get and survive on their name. If a Carvin or a Schecter were all over the place on quality like that, they would have been gone years ago.

I read the personal reviews with a grain of salt... though sometimes a pound would be more appropriate. I've seen people crucify not only Fender but other brands over things as silly as not liking the current setup or buying an instrument locally and then figuring out they don't like the weight. Gripe about dead strings on an in-store instrument. Or simpy not knowing how things operate.

I've never had a Fender with a real problem. I have several friends with the same experiences. The setup was okay but not optimal on my FMT 5 so I set it up. I know I should've griped about it first but that just isn't me.

I have an eye for detail and for some odd reason I can't seem to come across as many problems as many "reviewers" do... even though I see far more basses than the average guy. What am I missing... the vision to see them or the bone that needs picking?

I had a problem with the fingerboard on the one Carvin I ordered. It's not like there are no QC issues with them, no matter how optimistic people might want to be.

 

[bassyRyan]

Expect more BS "versions" of the old J bass to be made with a higher price tag and made, more than likely, outside of the US.

But Fender has already been doing that succesfully for years through buy outs of such brands as Gretch, SWR, Guild, Squire and numerous others. This allows them to produce cheap, overseas crap without deteriorating their core brand's value. Reducing labor/materials costs is a given when considering why they brought him into the fold, but it's how he applies the cuts that need to be made that will determine whether he is doing a good job as CEO and for the good of Fender for it's customers.

 

[bassyRyan]

The last three Fenders in a row I had were terrible. Improperly dried wood, shrinking/warping neck, body that shrank and started showing the glue lines in a year, broken bridge, off center inlays, frets sticking out... And no, I'm not an idiot that doesn't know how to take care of stuff. Anything I own lasts a long time.

One SHOULD be able to purchase something sight unseen and expect reasonable quality but in the world of musical instruments, that is not the reality. The one Carvin I bought sight unseen was a terrible flop...over priced with a neck that did not function. For the record, out of the 4 or so Fenders I have owned, one was a dud. The neck had a twist. My current #1 is a 50's Classic MIM Precision and I could not be happier with everything about the bass. I have not had to touch the truss rod once since the three yrs ago I bought it, and it has never failed me electronically or hardware-wise.
What I expect from any company is quality and consistency. I know that Fender can provide that. (Just make sure you get to PLAY it first!)

 

[zeroncali]

I think his sales background could be good for innovations coming from Fender. To the best of my knowledge all of the radical designs to come out of Fender haven't flopped because they were bad. But they flopped because people who want to buy a Fender only want a Jazz or Precision bass. Somebody with some marketing savvy may be able to sell something "different" to the public with at least enough success to keep trying.

 

[zachoff]

I hope it becomes a directive to make a tube head that competes with the Peavey VB2 in price and wattage and employs the old Fender tone stack. I'd buy it.

 

[Xray66]

Obviously not. No offense. Just reading what you wrote.

So you bought those three Fenders new? I can understand buying a second terrible instrument, giving a company the benefit of the doubt. Why would you try a third time? I'm genuinely curious.

This was across an extended period of time. Yes, I did give them the benefit of the doubt with three. I did have one much earlier that was fine. Three bad out of four isn't a very good ratio and goes beyond bad luck.

Bottom line... Why would anybody systematically discredit a guitar company for no reason? You make it sound like there's a conspiracy going on or something. As I said... For me, these were all legit, serious problems. When the neck shrinks so bad within 6 months that all the fret ends are sticking out, that's not a "gripe"... That's them knowingly using green wood that has not been dried properly.

I saw a Fender on here the other day that looked like a nightmare, and a few people actually defended it. That's not logical... That just blind devotion based on a name.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This was across an extended period of time. Yes, I did give them the benefit of the doubt with three. I did have one much earlier that was fine. Three bad out of four isn't a very good ratio and goes beyond bad luck.

Bottom line... Why would anybody systematically discredit a guitar company for no reason? You make it sound like there's a conspiracy going on or something. As I said... For me, these were all legit, serious problems. When the neck shrinks so bad within 6 months that all the fret ends are sticking out, that's not a "gripe"... That's them knowingly using green wood that has not been dried properly.

Why would people talk about things they haven't actually experienced? It happens frequently. Anectdotal evidence is proof for many and gets co-opted on a regular basis.

So you bought two horrible basses over a period of time and the third was also horrible. Were all three purchased sight unseen?

I saw a Fender on here the other day that looked like a nightmare, and a few people actually defended it. That's not logical... That just blind devotion based on a name.

Got a link?

People have different priorities. For some esthetics trump all and you could have the greatest playing and sounding bass they've ever experienced but if there's a fret tang protruding OMG call the law!

There are others that completely ignore the price point. They constantly ask why a $1k Fender isn't as nice fit and finish wise as a $4k clone.

There are also those who play bass and focus on playability and sound. I'm one of those. Sure I like a nice looking bass but do I obsess if there's a gap in the neck pocket that affects neither? Nope. Or complain that the strings were too high when I bought it? Or my favorite, complaining about "cheap bent bridges" that neither bend nor move that IME IMO contribute to the sound?

If what Fender is doing really bothers someone, why not just buy something else and move on? What does the continued appeal stem from... a need to feel aggravated?


They're instruments made of wood. If you're looking for a bass made of really seasoned wood, Ken Smith has a nice stash that you could have a Smith bass made with. If finish settling is a big deal, go upscale... maybe you'll avoid it. Maybe not. It's wood.