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Fender Showman (brownface vs blackface) for bass?
- Thread starter OldSchool50
- Start date
I totally agree, and I was sold my first SVT + cab bc they guy was a guitar amp tech that wanted me to stop messing with the amps he had in his showroom with a BC Rich Warlock bass
Old Orange 120 stack's were particularly good if you liked fuzz.
What does all this have to do with an open back 4-10 combo amp?I totally agree, and I was sold my first SVT + cab bc they guy was a guitar amp tech that wanted me to stop messing with the amps he had in his showroom with a BC Rich Warlock bass
Old Orange 120 stack's were particularly good if you liked fuzz.
What does all this have to do with an open back 4-10 combo amp?
The Concert is the successor to the Tweed Bassman, with some fx and circuit changes that made it distort in a way you'd want to switch to a Showman for bass.
Totally fine for guitar at volume, but thumping along with P's thru that open back 410 made Sal's blood pressure rise.
Those Jensen speakers are sweet, just like old flatback 810's are sweet.
So if you can control yourself using a Fender amp as it was intended is fine.
Most of us cannot stay in that torque curve, hence the later 60's bass specific Fender amps.
The 610 Fender was particularly cool, I think the local store has one they can't sell.
Great suggestion and I have actually been looking for one but they are fairly rare these days. I missed one while back and the few others I"ve seen were way overpriced.
Those amps sound so good, but yeah they're rare and even the regular black ones have real high, borderline overpriced resale values IMO. I've never seen a blonde one in person, let alone used.
Do you mean the Alembic preamps? Their [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] rackmount preamp is almost identical to a Dual Showman circuit. I'm not aware of any pedals made by Alembic.
I'd probably use one of the pedals.
I've played pre-CBS Dual Showman heads and Alembic preamps in the past.
They're nice, but I prefer the SVP-CL for most things.
FETF2B
Invalid Link Removed
I've played pre-CBS Dual Showman heads and Alembic preamps in the past.
They're nice, but I prefer the SVP-CL for most things.
FETF2B
Invalid Link Removed
Here's my take on Brownface vs. Blackface Dual Showmans in an effort to get this thread back on track.....
I have one of each, a '62 Brownface and a '67 Blackface, both are Dual Showmans and are unmodified except for grounded AC plugs, replaced filter caps and newer tubes.
The Blackface '67 seems louder but that isn't really the case as the volume control on the Brownface '62 is much more linear. The '67 has a more vertical volume curve but both amps top out at about the same level in my experience. For over a decade using one or the other of these amps, I played some pretty large rooms, often with no FOH support and never felt underpowered even with a hard-hitting drummer.
Both amps can provide quite a bit of clean headroom with the right cabinet. The non-tone ring Fender 2x15 bass cabinets are not great for bass. I have one with 400W E-V 15BX speakers which was "adequate" with a couple very loud surf bands I was in but a '70's center ported Peavey 2x15 that I acquired later and installed the E-V's in was great, tone- and volume-wise.
My conclusions: The Brownface '62 has a noticeably warmer, more musical tone than the Blackface '67. The Blackface '67 has a more assertive, crisper tone. Overall, I prefer the '62 Brownface pictured below. Both work well onstage even at pretty loud volume levels, with a proper 4 ohm bass cabinet. Dual Showmans run at 4 ohms, regular Showmans at 8.
I have one of each, a '62 Brownface and a '67 Blackface, both are Dual Showmans and are unmodified except for grounded AC plugs, replaced filter caps and newer tubes.
The Blackface '67 seems louder but that isn't really the case as the volume control on the Brownface '62 is much more linear. The '67 has a more vertical volume curve but both amps top out at about the same level in my experience. For over a decade using one or the other of these amps, I played some pretty large rooms, often with no FOH support and never felt underpowered even with a hard-hitting drummer.
Both amps can provide quite a bit of clean headroom with the right cabinet. The non-tone ring Fender 2x15 bass cabinets are not great for bass. I have one with 400W E-V 15BX speakers which was "adequate" with a couple very loud surf bands I was in but a '70's center ported Peavey 2x15 that I acquired later and installed the E-V's in was great, tone- and volume-wise.
My conclusions: The Brownface '62 has a noticeably warmer, more musical tone than the Blackface '67. The Blackface '67 has a more assertive, crisper tone. Overall, I prefer the '62 Brownface pictured below. Both work well onstage even at pretty loud volume levels, with a proper 4 ohm bass cabinet. Dual Showmans run at 4 ohms, regular Showmans at 8.
Fender cabs were always the weak link.
SWR goliath was an epiphany in the late 80's for me, ports that did something to make a small cab sound big.
I was a kid then, so old Ampeg 810's or a Mesa 215 was affordable.
The black face Dual Showman I had was this unwanted thing I picked up somewhere cheap.
Everyone wanted Twin Reverbs, Super Reverbs, and Deluxe Reverbs at the time so there were heads you could get like blonde Bandmasters for a song.
Old guys in the Bay area loved the Showmans, those were the hippie era big show heads they'd get all geeky and mod.
I'm the OP and thanks WoodyJ for getting back to my question. Your response really gets to the heart of my question and many of the other posts are very helpful. GIven my experience with the blackface, it seems I"d be happy with the volume and tone of a brownface Showman, with the right cab, especially if it's a little warmer And as others have said, the tone-ring cabinets are in another class. My 12" is capable of clean and deep bottom, depending on the head and bass. I've actually got a new Eminence Delta lfc in it at 4 ohm, which I would change with a Brownface 8 ohm, but it sound very nice with the DS. That speaker can handle 500 watts but I don't sense a mismatch and I will be trying it with a more powerful head. But back to Brown vs. Black, I feeling like if I ever come across a Brown in good shape that I can afford I would give it a try. Naturally, anyone looking to sell or trade, try me.
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I like Woody's post.
He pretty much nailed it.
To further explain the progression,
the Silver face ones that followed the Black faces
claimed to be 100 watts, intead of 85 and stayed
cleaner as they were turned up.
A plus for bass in many ways, but some find them
a little too clean.
He pretty much nailed it.
To further explain the progression,
the Silver face ones that followed the Black faces
claimed to be 100 watts, intead of 85 and stayed
cleaner as they were turned up.
A plus for bass in many ways, but some find them
a little too clean.
And then there were the ultra-linear versions of the Silverface giving you a whopping 135 watts. The UL versions really didn't break up until they got ear shattering
I use a 1966 Showman and a 1X15 tone ring cab loaded with a D140 - great for bass. I have a second custom cab (quite a bit lighter than the tone ring) with a K140 - also sounds great.
