Fender's lack of bass evolution

[bigswifty1]

Fender and EBMM both get criticism for not innovating. That might or might not be true, but I feel like they've tried lots of different models and what generally happens is that they don't sell. I think it's that simple.

 

[JW56789]

Say tomorrow, FMIC goes belly up. Done. Out of business.

Two things will immediately happen:

1) The price of anything Fender will increase noticeably in the used market.

2) The line of buyers of FMIC will already be forming, bids at the ready.

This is when you know, as they do, you don't reinvent the wheel. Now you can offer new finishes, make a limied edition in magnesium instead of aluminum, new sizes to run your 20's, all that's fine. But it's just slight variations of the same wheel.

Plus, implicit in all this is just how right the original designs were: You can fine tune them all you want, but it's hard to argue with the basic rightness of what the Precision and the Jazz Bass embody for most people.

When they step out and make new basses that are thoughtful riffs on their usual suspects, let's say the Roscoe Becks and the P-Bass Lytes, they find a small market, but a much larger share of their usual customer who just want 'you know, a plain ol' PBass, I don't need all them knobs' are generally not moved to buy them.

And for the guys that 'want all them knobs', Sadowsky, Nash, and an endless number of clone makers will fix you right up.

You have to face up to it that Fender guitars and basses are a lot like Harley-Davidson: Everybody buys the same thing, so they can be different. Go figure . . . . . .

 

[Btbp]

I like the older Fender basses, I don't care for their new line ups especially when they quit using Rosewood for that wood paneling looking stuff, when I'm browsing basses I'll see something that catches my eye and when I take a closer look and see that it's not Rosewood or if it's Pbass with a Jazz pickup by the bridge I shake my head and wonder why I just wasted 4 seconds of my life...

Same here.

Even with Mod Shops and the like I still can't get a P with Jazz neck with a dark Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard with no binding and no bridge pickup. And options for bridge and pickup covers. Matching headstock. No thumb rest.

It's not too far off but I a pretty sure I would not be alone for options like these.

Plus they could have brought back the American Standard Zone bass with a better neck and headstock.

 

[Paul New]

Fender reminds me a lot of another classic American brand - Harley Davidson. They're both similar in that they are prisoners to their iconic history. In other words, they can innovate a bit, but only so far. Their customer expect a certain form and function (e.g. P bass, Jazz bass, Strat, Tele, etc.). If they stray too far from the customer expectations, they will likely be rejected. Even stranger, customers are willing to pay the custom shop extra money, not to make something that is the latest and greatest, but instead to make something, by hand, the way they used to in the old days. I think that their mod shop is probably a really good idea. Otherwise, they seem to make a lot of different versions of the same thing - sometimes they teach us geography, sometimes they show us how an artist has modified one of their instruments. Still, it's better to be Fender and have a built in fanbase and brand equity than to be without it.

There's a difference. For some of us the bass is just a toy, like the HD bike, but for many others the bass is a tool. So let me ask, which bass tool is most often used today, in what is left of the studios? What bass design since the P and J has been an actual improvement, not just a tweak? Opinions vary, but mine is that I know a Fender design will do what I need it to do. The innovation is in the concept itself: Saw out a slab of solid lumber, stick these electromagnetic devices on it, a neck, and this will satisfy the bass function in all kinds of music. For the others my upright, based on a 200 year old design, will probably work.

 

[mazdah]

Bass players from all around the world who expect and would buy Fender innovative product could probably go together to a small pub for a beer without breaking any COVID restrictions

Roscoe Beck, Jazz Bass VI, Plus and Elite series from the 80's and 90's, Urge, Zone, Performer, Katana, Swinger...

Fender tried and nobody wanted their innovative products.

 

[drumvsbass]

What's new pussycat! whaaooo.... hey wait a minute...

 

[Salo70]

There's no need to improve perfection (Precision bass). That's why for example Bic Mac stays the same.

 

[Lowbrow]

Who gives a rat? If you want innovation, there are plenty of instrument makers who specialize in that. Fender is Fender, and the world loves what it produces.

 

[Outbush]

The bass is only part of a players sound. Given that every amp and pedal in the world probably takes into consideration the P & J sound in design and testing and making them sound good then perhaps the basses themselves can be left alone. As an innovation watcher I reckon the world of bass is not really a place innovation happens much and when it does if it sells it quickly gets copied/adopted by others. There are points of differentiation but they are not all that great as bass is a mature area. That's ok, most of the innovation is in the music not the machines - perfectly healthy.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

They actually do innovate. They add frets. V-mod pickups. The Ultra series has additional neck carves, active preamps, etc. Most people prefer vintage specs.

 

[Evilheim]

For me, Fender is a classical and the bass designs they always had works pretty well in terms of functionality, sales, building and quality (bless Jazz and Precision Basses). but unlike other "classical brands" they keep putting out some new stuff from time to time, for example, the Jaguar Bass, that become a Player's line "standard option", I still think they would keep all the cool controls like the first line of Jags, I think it's was the point of that model.

But I'm still thinking that during the mid 80's to early 2000's they released a lot of innovative and new bass stuff, like the Plus, Lyte, Zone and Urge basses for example

 

[J-Bass RMR]

Part of it's like being type-cast - people won't be quick to accept them in another role.
They have their "niche", and they do it well.
Why try to be all things to all people when there are plenty of other manufactures and builders out there?
In fact, in terms of instrument & amplification options available to bassists now, we've never had it better.


on another note; just heard there's a new AC/DC album out...

 

[JMarkD]

I haven't read through the entire thread and I am sure others have expressed this opinion so I'll add as a consensus, Fender has offered some pretty innovative designs, both new and as modifications to their obvious icons. Most have been roundly rejected in the market place. Leo himself really didn't explore fresh ideas until he moved on to Musicman and G&L.

 

[Rib 13]

Fender can be innovative, they've demonstrated so many times throughout the years. Though often, they don't give the innovative products much of a chance in the market before cancelling them (recently, the Dimension basses, for example).

I think what hurt the Dimension was that it didnt deliver on its promise: it was supposed to be Fender's offering into the "Stingray" market meant to compete against Ernie Ball, G&L, and all the other MM-ish basses out there that tread into that territory. The dual pickup Dimension is wired just like an Ernie Ball HH

I discovered this myself as I was in the market recently for a Stingray HH (which I bought),,,,,I tried out a used Dimension at GC and wouldve taken it had it had a Ray-ish thing going on....The twin pickup Dimension had more Jazz qualities in tone than Ray....as a matter of fact, it sounded more like a Jazz variant in its settings than anything else.....Pretty much a redundancy of one of their more classic instruments..........

 

[philthygeezer]

Fender and EBMM both get criticism for not innovating. That might or might not be true, but I feel like they've tried lots of different models and what generally happens is that they don't sell. I think it's that simple.

Yeah we've watched this in real time, over and over.

 

[kerrycares]

The Fender Paranormal Bass is kinda cool

 

[And I]

If it ain't broke...

 

[John Webb]

....sorta like Harley Davidson.

 

[Phaidrus]

Anyone else notice Fender's lack luster efforts to come up with new designs? The "new" models are just P and J re-treads or re-configurations. When's the last time they introduced a new through neck model?

The Pbass and the Jbass rule the bass world. And pretty much produce all the tones you can imagine. All other designs are variants thereof.

 

[LBS-bass]

I would state it the other way 'round. Musicians haven't come up with anything necessitating widespread drastic changes in the average electric bass itself, in the past 60 years. The market hasn't demanded anything more of Fender, in other words.

Music has changed though, and artists responded by introducing synth bass lines, which dominated to a degree during the 80's and are dominant now in certain genres. One of the reasons bass guitars do not evolve beyond a certain point is that when people are looking to something different on the bottom end they don't always use a stringed instrument to get it.